Episode 114: How To Expand Your Private Practice Across State Lines [featuring Candace Morey]

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Casale. I'm joined today by my friend Candace Wall. She is a licensed mental health counselor, and the owner of 413 THERAWORKS, and a group practice owner, and a coach, and consultant, and speaker, and all the things.

And today we're going to talk about, as we usually do, some struggle areas of being a small business owner. But more importantly, Candace is doing some really cool stuff in the group practice space. And I really want to highlight that, because I want to really showcase that these things are possible for those of you who are listening, if you can think about it with creativity, and ingenuity, and innovation, and just thinking outside the box.

So, Candace, thank you so much for coming on and making the time.

CANDACE MOREY: Absolutely. I'm really excited to be here. And thanks for inviting me.

PATRICK CASALE: I think that before we hit record, Candace and I were just talking about Lord of the Rings. And I wouldn't prefer to have that conversation right now. But so you're a group practice owner in the northeast, but you've expanded into several states. And when I saw you in, I think it was Ireland, you were talking about your vision and really what you wanted to do in terms of how you wanted your vision, and your approach, and your expansion to look.

So, I want to highlight that because I felt like it was really unique, really cool concept. And really, again, capturing this like, ability to think outside the box when we think about how do we start attracting more clients? How do we start making more revenue? How do we create more jobs in the mental health space?

So, tell me a little bit about what you're doing and tell the audience, yeah, kind of what's happening behind the scenes?

CANDACE MOREY: Sure. So, I'm in Massachusetts, super rural Mass, Western Mass, as far west as it gets in the state. And with that said too, there's a lot less money here for cash pay clients, especially, to have full case-loads of cash pay clients. I would say we're about 10 to 15% private pay and the rest is insurance based.

And obviously, a huge challenge with being an insurance based practice is that they reimburse crap. Some of them even insulting rates to the point where we've dropped the panels completely. But in order to pay therapists and attract awesome kick ass therapists what they're worth, we need to be making more money, bringing more money in.

And I thought about creative ways to do that. And with that said too came the idea of expanding to states, especially, with telehealth now being such a thing since COVID, such an accepted thing, increasing accessibility for services, why are we not expanding to other states, especially states that have markets in large cities as opposed to just rural areas?

And so my first hire, actually, she came multi-licensed. So, she was licensed in [INDICSERNIBLE 00:03:56] Vermont, in New York State. Vermont's climate is very similar to Mass. So, a lot of our efforts have been shifted toward New York State.

And I recently got licensed in Arizona too with the thought that I would expand in Phoenix Metro Area. I'm spending more time out there anyway. And so being able to build a team out there just makes more sense.

And so the idea is that the clients that we'll get there were kind of beta testing, being completely private pay in New York State and Arizona will help funnel extra money into being able to pay the Mass clinicians just as much as the therapists in the other states are making even though Mass is primarily insurance based practice.

PATRICK CASALE: So, it sounds like just really acknowledging the fact that you acknowledge as a group practice owner you have to pay your staff well if you want to retain them?

CANDACE MOREY: Yep.

PATRICK CASALE: And in order to do so you have to think outside the box, especially, if you're saying the demographics don't really kind of coincide with creating a cash pay practice here, because people rely on their insurance and understandably so. And then, obviously, the reimbursement rates just vary from panel to panel and are a nightmare to deal with.

So, being able to expand into other states, I think this is a topic that people often think about and they ask these questions. So, tell us a little bit about like the logistics behind expansion into other states, getting licensed in other states, because I think the questions that come up are like, what do I do about getting reciprocity or getting licensed there? Then, obviously, you have to maintain your CEs for that specific state's licensing board.

But more importantly, I think the confusion really comes in with the business structuring. So, like, do I create an entity there? Do I pay taxes there? What are all those regulations? So, walk us through some of the stuff that kind of goes on behind the scenes to make this happen.

CANDACE MOREY: Yeah. So first and foremost, I consulted the experts who would know those things. So, I talked to my business attorney. And I also talked to my CPA. And my initial idea, actually, was to create completely separate entities in those states. And for many reasons, like thinking about future buyout of certain practices, and freeing up my time to continue to go into other states, and travel, and explore, and do all the things. And what it ended up coming down to things that you just learn along the way. So, the idea was to create a separate entity in New York State. But what I learned in New York State is that because I'm a licensed mental health counselor, I cannot hire social workers as W-2 employees. Even if they're fully licensed, independently licensed, and don't require supervision anymore, I can't supervise them, so I can't hire them unless I had someone who was a co-owner, who was a social worker.

And so that was the first kind of roadblock that came up, that I had a really hard time wrapping my head around. And so I think that when you're looking to expand, as with any small business owner has to deal with, there's going to be things that come up, there's going to be roadblocks that come up, and you have to figure out like, is this going to stop me? Or is there a way that I could be more creative in managing it? [CROSSTALK 00:07:14]-

PATRICK CASALE: So, what did you-?

CANDACE MOREY: Oh, sorry, go ahead.

PATRICK CASALE: So, what did you do when you came across that very dumb, stupid roadblock which doesn't make sense? I imagine it's board and PLLC-related, where it's like, okay, this is how this business has to be structured. And it obviously makes absolutely no sense, especially, for fully licensed clinicians who don't need supervision. So, what did you end up doing to pivot and adapt?

CANDACE MOREY: Yeah, so I ended up having a conversation with my CPA, too. And she said, it just made sense to keep it under the LLC anyway, especially, tax structured. And so that employee is an employee of the Mass practice. And similar to what you said at the beginning, like we have to pay payroll taxes to New York State, because she resides in New York State. But the cool thing, too, is that I don't want to set up all the separate big accounts now, I don't have to pay the additional annual filing fee for a separate state to have a separate entity.

And so from a cost standpoint, every year makes more sense for it all to be underneath, but again, I think the most important thing was being able to have the flexibility to figure out how to make it work as opposed to seeing that roadblock as like, well, I guess I can't do that. Let's pivot to something else.

PATRICK CASALE: That's such a good point. And I think that's so often happens to be the mentality that is like, first and foremost, is we hit the roadblock when we're trying something new. And then all of a sudden, it reinforces that negative belief of like, oh, yeah, this is too hard to create, this is too hard to do. Why did I even attempt it? I'm not going to move forward. So, there is a separation here in terms of people who are like, "Okay, this is a roadblock. It's frustrating. I'm going to figure out a way to work around that." And it sounds like that's something that you're really trying to do in your business structure and to model to your employees and your staff as well.

CANDACE MOREY: Absolutely. I always talk about too like, the way that I've built 413 THERAWORKS has really been startup mentality, where we want to hear the ideas, we want to be creative, we want to pivot when we pivot, we want to try something and if it doesn't work, let's try something else as opposed to feeling like this is the structure, we can't go outside the box. That's just not how my mindset works. Regardless of it being an entrepreneurial brain or not, I want that flexibility and I want to be able to cultivate an environment where the staff wants to do those things too and wants to take risks. Even if they don't pay off they can we can still learn so much from taking different risks.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. And I think we highlight that on this podcast all the time. Like, when we do take risks it allows us to grow. It doesn't mean that it's not messy, right? Like, there are definitely obstacles, there're definitely frustration areas, and there are definitely days when you do want to just wave the white flag and say like, "No, I'm done with this."

But ultimately, I do think if we work through those things, that's what creates this, like innovation is creativity, this ingenuity, this ability to think outside the box, and really attract different types of talent, because what it tells me about you as a boss, it means that you're going to go the extra mile to figure out a way to ensure that your staff are well taken care of.

And that is very different than someone that just sees things very black and white. And like, this is what employment looks like, this is what therapy looks like, this is how we're going to operate. Those places of employment tend to have a lot of turnover.

So, tell me about like, you're obviously expanding into new states, you want to continue to grow, you want to continue to employ, you want to continue to create accessibility. But I believe you have some other ideas that are interwoven into the foundation of your business, and how to help your clinicians make more money, and how to kind of think differently in the therapy landscape.

CANDACE MOREY: Yeah, so we have conversations all the time where I think I've certainly attracted people who are of similar mind of me and want variability in their day. Therapy to me is so boring. I hate being a therapist. It is the thing I enjoy the least about being a therapist is actually doing the therapy. And there are certainly ways that I translate that skill that I learned and treating my employee and my clients in a sense, and making sure that they're getting what they need to grow, and they're continuing to develop.

And so there's certainly people, you know, we're having conversations all the time when we're meeting individually and as a team, are you satisfied? Are there other things that you want to learn about? I had a therapist who had never done any couples work before and was like, "I kind of want to learn more about this." And so we got her into Gottman training, that we could get her feet we, and absolutely loves that framework.

And so I think that that is a big thing that I'm trying to build to is employees feeling comfortable telling me what they need and what they're not getting. And so we recently got NBCC certified to be able to provide CEs, which is incredible, and that is another benefit we're offering to employees is, "Hey, we don't have to pay for CEs, we can do them all in-house. And we can all share our expertise and actually get continuing ED credits that we need for our licensure." And with that said too, that's a benefit that will carry over into other states for employees as well, because it's nationally recognized, right?

And so we're having conversations about, "Oh, you want to start a group? What do you want to do a group on? Let's put it out there." The one benefit to being in a rural community is all the community connection that we have and the great relationships that we have with medical practices in the area and other potential referral sources. So, we're having conversations all the time about [INDISCERNIBLE 00:13:03] but also resources for other organizations to participate in, too.

And if employees want to take a shot at leading a training, great. Do you need help? Can I set up a Zoom for you? What are you interested in doing? What are you interested in learning and making it happen?

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. I want to circle back to the first point of you saying like, "My least favorite thing about being a therapist is being a therapist." I can definitely relate. I think that there are a lot of people listening who probably can relate. And I know that that statement can bring up a lot of mixed emotion internally of like shamefulness, abandonment to the profession, etc. Nevertheless, I love that you identify that. So, you know, I'm better suited to be in a leadership role. And that's really important to identify.

So, everyone listening who's just thinking about either starting a group practice or having employees, you kind of have to start identifying those strength areas, and it's okay if it doesn't mean that you're doing direct work anymore.

Number two, I love that you are offering these opportunities internally to say and I do the same thing. We are also MBCC certified to offer trainings, because I want variability in my day for my staff as well. I don't want them to think like all my career is is just 60 minutes session after 60-minute session, because one, it's exhausting. And two, it's pretty boring most of the time.

CANDACE MOREY: It is pretty isolating. Like, there's certainly therapists that are like, "Hey, I joined a group practice because I thought there would be more collaboration but I'm literally sitting in my office-

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

CANDACE MOREY: …session after session."

PATRICK CASALE: With no one to spend time with, no one to bounce ideas off of, really important.

I want to ask a question because I think- this is something that also comes up for people in terms of culture creation. You just mentioned, like, in Mass, we're in a rural community, we have relationships built. So, for the audience who's listening, how are you going to establish and build relationships in these other locations when you start moving into Phoenix, New York, Vermont, etc.? How does that kind of look comparatively?

CANDACE MOREY: So, I'm actually going to follow the same process that I did with Mass and see what happens. So, certainly, I've joined all the Facebook groups for those communities for therapists, introduced myself. And I start creating a list of potential people that I would network with that could send me clients.

And I think what was really helpful for me when I built my Mass list is I'm thinking outside of just primary care physicians. I'm thinking of any company or any service provider that interfaces with people could be a referral source.

So, I'm also reaching out to spas, and hair stylists, right? Dentists in the community. I'm being as creative as possible when I'm creating my list. And what I do is I'm getting contact information, I'm also mailing letters, and I'm just starting to build community in that way of letting people know, 'Hey, this is who I am, this is what I'm about, this is what I offer, I'd love if there's opportunities for us to collaborate."

There's certainly been people that want to know more. And so we'll follow up and have a conversation about it and develop just trust in that relationship. And to let them know that I'm actually a good person doing good work and so is my team. That way they feel comfortable when they are referring people to us.

But we get a huge influx of referrals from med spas too, and people who are presenting maybe with some body dysmorphia type stuff. And it's great that we can be a resource for them. And so it's so important to think outside of the box of just reaching out to primary care facilities or hospitals in the area, and really looking to expand your network.

PATRICK CASALE: That is so important. And I hope everyone can be thinking about that while you're listening. When I do my coaching programs, when we're talking about networking, and we work through the mindset stuff of like, "Ooh, networking feels uncomfortable and I don't want to do it." When I start asking like who could be a referral source for your clients. Everybody could be a referral source for your clients, because everybody knows somebody who needs mental health support.

So, it really is about being creative, thinking outside the box, and thinking about how can you be in connection with people who are public-facing, right? Like, tattoo artists, acupuncturist, yoga instructors, Reiki healers. Like, it doesn't matter, the sky is the limit. And it's just a matter of putting yourself out there, and introducing yourself, and building relationships, which all of us who are trained in the mental health field are experts at.

And I think we so often overlook this because of our like, lack of business training, and experience. So, we don't really understand the importance of relationship building. And if you're thinking about expansion, any of you who are listening, whether it be solo or group practice into other areas and locations, you're not going to just put up a Psychology Today in Phoenix and all of a sudden be full. That's not how it's going to work. You're going to have to reestablish yourself in these locations, similarly to how you did in wherever you're working from now. And I know that can feel daunting, but I do think that's the really cool component of telehealth and accessibility to online mental health care.

CANDACE MOREY: And that's also something that I kind of tell myself too when I'm hitting roadblocks, is I've already done this. I've already done this hill before. It's familiar to me. I just have to push and keep pushing.

And I think another thing too, is, it's possible that I just haven't met these people yet, but nobody likes networking. It's awful, it's exhausting, right? Maybe there's some wonderful unicorns out there that are so extroverted and just love it so much. But I hate it. It's the worst, right? Because it always starts with like this superficial conversation about these are my services, right? Like, there's this robotic thing. And so I think when you're trying to build genuine conversation with or communication and relationships with people, too, it's so important to like, be yourself and show up, and nobody likes it, nobody likes it. But unfortunately, it is a part of doing business.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I was waiting for you to say like, nobody likes it, but... Like, it's a really important part of building your business. And I think that if you can think of networking is just reciprocal relationship building, then it's so much easier than being like, "I've got to go on this like awkward first date. I've got to go on this job interview and answer all these questions."

Like, if I know for me, when I first started here in Asheville, which is saturated as hell. Like, you have a therapist office everywhere you look, which is great. It means that the community at large buys into healing. However, networking is so important, because tight-knit communities like Asheville will not refer to you if they don't know who you are, and they don't trust that you're doing good work. So, that does mean you have to put yourself out there. But I always try to tell people like, I know it's uncomfortable when you're putting yourself out there, trying to connect. The reality is most people also have had to do the same on their end or need to do the same anyway. So, you're not alone in this. It's not like this unique situation where you're the only one who's like, "I need referrals, and I need to build my community."

No, like, everybody needs to fucking do that. So, if you can move out of that mindset, it's a lot easier. And I know for me, those conversations where we just went talked like as human beings, like we're doing right now, without a script, without like, standard set of questions, those are the people I refer to, to this day, and that was from seven years ago. And those people became friends, and you're invested in their success, and vice versa.

The ones that were like, standard job interviews, or weird first dates, I probably never talked to those people again, and that's [CROSSTALK 00:23:32]-

CANDACE MOREY: You can't even remember who they are.

PATRICK CASALE: No. But the funny thing is, like, I used, well, I'm not working as a therapist anymore, but when I was I would get a call and be like, "So and so give me your name." And I'm like, "Who the hell is that?" And I had to look back and I'm like, "Oh, I had coffee with this person like two years ago." It felt like a conversation that wasn't going to go anywhere, but you just never know, because if you get in front of people, they're going to more likely remember you, and at least be more inclined to refer to you. And that's just business 101 of like, know, like, and trust factor. We're very rarely going to refer to businesses or people that we don't have any knowledge of or any kind of insight into.

CANDACE MOREY: Right. I will share too a roadblock that I'm discovering in Arizona is that they are allowing new grads to open private practice as long as they have a supervisor. And so thinking about building team out there is figuring out, how am I going to sell working for group practice when someone can just open private practice themselves, too? And so that's kind of the thing that I've been chewing on.

PATRICK CASALE: I have good thoughts on that.

CANDACE MOREY: Oh, please, I'm open to hearing that if you want to share.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. So, here in North Carolina, you can do the same thing. You can open a private practice as an associate licensed clinician, as long as you have a supervisor. So, how I always think about this as a group practice owner, like why would somebody work for me when I'm a coach who helps people start their own businesses all over the country? Like, why would they not just start their own business? And you mentioned before, teamwork, camaraderie, connection, that is what people want, because when you're siloed, when you feel isolated, the job is not fulfilling, you are working, you're seeing clients, and by the end of the day, you don't even remember who you spoke to, and you're just like, "I have to go home, I can't talk to my partner about what I did today, I'm alone in this." So, that's number one.

Number two, if you prioritize people over profit, and I'm not saying group practice owners, you know, do not make a profit, because you have to, but if you prioritize paying your clinicians more, including a little bit more in terms of benefit packaging, where you can, thinking outside the box in terms of ways that you can support your clinician's growth, you will attract clients, or you will attract applicants who are associate licensed who could go out and do their own thing, and even fully licensed clinicians.

I'm not bragging, but I probably get about 15 to 20 applications a week. And we are in an era right now where I hear so often from group practice owners, you can't attract good talent, nobody wants to work. In reality, it's nobody wants to work for someone who is not going to treat them well. We have made and drawn that line in the sand, and I think that was COVID as a catalyst for that, because so many people were being like, forced to go to community mental health jobs in a fucking pandemic. And they're like, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, I'm not putting myself at risk.

So, if you can really write a good job description, and y'all are all welcome to check mine out, it's on resilientmindcounseling.com. You can take it, you can make it your own. I don't care. All I know is that the more transparent and authentic your job description can be and the more transparent and authentic your message to the community can be in the local therapist Facebook groups, you will attract good talent. List the pay, be transparent about the benefits, be transparent and be really clear about why your practice is different than everybody else's.

Like my job description says, "We require I have four-day workweeks, we don't encourage it. We include A, B, C, D, E, we do team retreats." Like, we have one coming up next weekend where we're meeting in a mountain town in North Carolina for the weekend. We're going to have a good time. Last year, we went to Charleston. We did like rage rooms, we did dinners, we went to the beach. People want to feel like they're a part of something.

So, I really do think that there are always going to be people who are going to start their own thing. But there are so many people who are not business savvy and do not want to deal with the entrepreneurial side of small business ownership. They just want to show up, see their clients, do their notes, get paid. And that is always going to be the case, so it's just a matter of really, like, getting clear on messaging when we're talking about what is the benefit of joining this practice.

CANDACE MOREY: And just to piggyback too off of what you said, those are all awesome, I'm certainly going to integrate some of it, for sure, is, the way that I look at hiring… So, I actually just paid for a LinkedIn ad. It was like the first advertisement I've ever had to pay for. Everything has really just been like people reaching out similarly to them applying to you, unless I'm doing kind of more hard recruiting, which is kind of what it's been. I know the people in the community that I want to work for me that I know are rock stars, and I've initiated the conversations. But I hired my first person this way and paid like 500 bucks or something like that for it.

And what I'm kind of learning too, is that we have ideal employees the same way that we have ideal clients as therapists, too. And we don't want everybody because not everybody is going to be a good fit. And so kind of a big thing that I'm doing when I'm interviewing is, I want them to evaluate us as a practice just as much as we're evaluating them as a candidate, because that's going to make the relationship work as opposed to them trying to sell me or kind of vice versa.

And the other thing too in my business, and this may be for a lot of group practice owners is we don't have to hire more people. We don't want to. So, that is a big difference too, between community mental health that has a waitlist of six months long that just needs a body, as opposed to a small business owner that wants the right person in the position, because having a small team too, you want people that are going to fit together and get along otherwise the culture can really be fractured.

PATRICK CASALE: Such a good point. You have to have your ideal set of employees in mind. And it's exactly what you just said, you want the person to be able to ask you anything, to be able to understand the business, to make sure it feels like a good fit on both sides, because a bad hire can really rupture the culture that you've worked so hard to create. And I think it's so invaluable to have these… My interview style is so informal. Like the people I interview, I go off of intuition all the time.

CANDACE MOREY: Me too.

PATRICK CASALE: One day it'll bite me in the ass, it has not in two and a half years. But like, I just want to get to know the person as a person. I know you have a master's degree. I know you have a license. Like, I don't need to know all of that stuff. I just want to know who you like working with? Who are you as a person? What are your goals as a human being? Like, what do you want to do?

I remember interviewing Chantelle Smith, who's now one of our co-clinical directors about a year and a half ago. And in our interview, she was like, "I want to be a leader. Like, I want to leave my current group practice, because I want to be a leader. They did not do anything to develop that. I said it over and over again."

And from day one, we put her on that leadership track, and just promoted her to a clinical director role last month. And it was just like in, you want to be able to understand your employees' aspirations and goals, because otherwise, it's just a job. And it's just a job that you're just like, "I'm not that excited to do this today."

I want to really try to get the best out of my employees and I look at myself much more as a coach and a mentor than a boss, because I don't care if my employees decide they want to start their practices a year into employment. I don't want them to leave, obviously. But I don't want to be an employer who's like, "You can't leave. We have these no competition statements and stipulations. You can take your clients." Blah, blah, blah, blah. That doesn't do good for anybody, right? And we have no turnover. Again, knock on wood.

So, like there are so many employment practices as a leader that you can implement and incorporate that leads to employee retention and attracting new employees in general. And the quality of the employee. So, I think this could all be a separate conversation, but it's all really important to think about, if you are in a leadership role.

CANDACE MOREY: Absolutely. And I think too, employees are going to want different things and different things are going to be important to them. And so kind of like what you're talking about, too, there might be people where pay is the most important thing and they don't really care about the benefits. But there's going to be people that love the benefits, love the flexibility. And so caring enough to figure out what's important to them is also super helpful, too. And knowing who's going to be a good fit for your practice and who you're going to retain too, as an employee.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. It's super crucial. And I think having check-ins, like you said before, and just asking for feedback. I think a lot of group practice owners shy away from it, because it feels uncomfortable. And it's such an important metric to be able to do individualized check-ins and get a feeling for like, what do you need to feel supported? What do you feel good about? What would you like to see differently? Like, we want to encourage that, because, again, there is such a bad negative perception of group practice owners in general, for the majority, anyway, because we do live in a fucking capitalist society and it's the reality. But there are good group practice owners. Like, you're doing things the right way. I know so many group practice owners who are really trying to empower their staff, opposed to like, just make money and take advantage of them.

CANDACE MOREY: Yeah, absolutely. And we're shifting to, I had had a conversation with Jennifer a couple months ago, of hiring more like early grad or post-grad folks. Like, provisionally licensed folks too, just to give them something different than having to go do the burnout thing for two years and community mental health, which actually, I think ruffles a lot of feathers for like the OGs out there.

And what I'm witnessing, as I'm bringing even licensed people who have done all that time in community mental health, is the first year that we're doing supervision is like this healing process that is undoing everything that they experienced and the trauma they experience working in community mental health grind as opposed to now being in a safe place where they can actually just focus on doing the work.

And so I'm a huge proponent of that too, of that continue to expand and opportunities for people post-grad, not having to go into community mental health for two years before they can actually get to the work.

I was having a conversation with an employee the other day. She's been licensed now about a year. And she told me she remembers when she graduated being so excited to get into this field, and being absolutely crushed by community mental health, and working for a substance use clinic. And it was absolutely heartbreaking to feel. Like, it's one thing when you're experiencing it yourself, and you feel like you're in a vacuum, but to hear other people talk about it, too, it's heartbreaking.

We've been exploited for so long as a field, and like you said too, COVID has really shaken that up and people are getting paid not yet what they're worth, but much closer to when I graduated. An offer I just made to a new employee was double what my first offer was out of my master's program. And that felt amazing to be able to do that.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, a lot of good points again, and I agree with everything you said. I think there's a lot of gatekeeping in this profession. And this mentality of like, "You've got to go earn your stripes and pull yourself up by your bootstraps for two years in community mental health and burn yourself out till you don't want to work in this profession anymore, and then you can join a practice." And it's like, what? Like, and then the argument's always like, "Yeah, you know, you got to work with a diverse clientele." Which is true, sure. You got to get your supervision, sure.

I remember my supervision in community mental health was one supervisor for 30 people in a room and all it was, was just people complaining and bitching about being burnt out.

CANDACE MOREY: I had to choose my own supervision because I didn't get it. So, I had to find it from someone who wasn't even a supervisor.

PATRICK CASALE: When I left to start my practice they "lost" all of my supervision hours. So, I had to start all of my hours over, which was really fun. So, yeah, there are ways to do this and ways not to do this in this profession.

So, this conversation is just a good example of what you can do differently in terms of not only group practice ownership, but just practice ownership in general. So, I hope there are some good takeaways from this. And Candace made a lot of great points. And I'm really glad that you came on just to share a bit of your vision and what you're doing in your business right now, because I think it's impactful. And I think it has a ripple effect on the community at large.

CANDACE MOREY: Thank you. I love talking about it. This is what I'm passionate about.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I love it. And just so everyone knows, like I say this a lot, none of this is scripted. Like, I didn't send Candace any questions. This is the beauty of just seeing where these conversations go. And you can incorporate that strategy into your networking as well. So, just like show up without expectations, just be curious, and just kind of just build authentic relationships. I think that's the most important piece when you're thinking about how can I get expansion into other states, other communities, other areas like that is the way and I will stand by that statement forever.

Tell the audience a little bit more about where they can find what you're offering.

CANDACE MOREY: Sure. So, you can find me on Instagram @talkwithcandace and also my group practice is @413theraworks. I'm also on TikTok and Facebook too at those same handles.

PATRICK CASALE: All of Candace's information will be in the show notes so that you all have access to it so you can follow her for tips, strategies, and just in case you want a place of employment. If you want a place of employment in North Carolina, shoot me a message on Instagram, Facebook, or email me.

So, to everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice Podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. Candace, I will see you in Serbia in a couple of months.

CANDACE MOREY: Can't wait.

PATRICK CASALE: I'm looking forward to that and I hope everyone has a good week.