Episode 131: Disclosure & Authenticity = Therapeutic Rapport & Safety [featuring Sandtrice Russell]

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the All Things Private Practice Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
✈️ Check out available Retreats
🗨️ Join the free Empowered Escape FB Community
🗨️ Join the free All Things Private Practice FB Community 

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: The Receptionist for iPad & Freed!

✨ The Receptionist for iPad:

I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.

From new patients faced with an empty lobby and no idea where to find their therapist to clinicians with a session running over time and the doorbell ringing, some of the most anxiety-ridden moments of a therapy appointment happen before a session even starts. The Receptionist for iPad, helps you tackle some of that pre-appointment apprehension and anxiety.

The Receptionist for iPad is an easy-to-use digital client check-in system that helps your visitors check in securely to their appointments and notify their practitioners of their arrival via SMS, email, or your preferred channel.

No more confusion and less lobby checking or having clients sign in on paper logbooks. It can even help you upgrade and update your demographic information for your clients as well and even validate parking.

Start a 14-day free trial of the Receptionist for iPad by going to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice. Make sure to start your trial with that link and you'll also get your first month free if you decide to sign up. 

✨ Freed:

I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.

Do you dread doing your notes every day? Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you. It's written in your style, and it's ready the moment the visit is over. Just imagine leaving the office at the same time as your last patient. Freed is HIPAA compliant, it's secure, and it takes less than 30 seconds to learn. Artificial intelligence cannot replace you, but it can do the administrative work that no one needs to be subjected to. Get back to doing what you love — helping your patients — and let Freed.AI do the rest.

Go to getfreed.ai and use code ATPP for your first month for free.

Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice podcast. I'm your host Patrick Casale. I'm joined by Sandtrice Russell today. Some of you may know her as Tree the LPC on social media. Also, the host of… what's the podcast called again?

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Self Aware & F**ked Up.

PATRICK CASALE: I knew it was something fucked up, and I was like, "Oh, I just lost the other part of it." In my head, Self Aware & F**ked Up, which I was a guest on a couple of weeks ago. And an LPC, private practice owner, motivational speaker, and really, really cool human being.

And if you're not following her already, I really suggest that. But really happy to have you on here today and have this conversation.

And I think we're going to kind of start off with like, tell us a little bit about yourself, and why you're here, and kind of a little bit about your journey along the way.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Got you. Definitely happy to do that. So, as you said, Patrick, my name is Sandtrice Russell. I am a licensed professional counselor in the state of Georgia. However, my journey towards counseling, actually, started in my childhood of wanting to truly be able to help other kids that had gone through what I went through as a child.

So, essentially, I was raised by my great-grandmother and my paternal great aunt. My mom, when I was growing up she ended up being in the prison system for a little period of time. And my dad, he had a really strong alcohol and drug problem as well. And so a lot of, I guess, my upbringing led me on this journey of wanting to be able to help others.

And so it was definitely a struggle, kind of, you know, getting to this place, ran into a couple of roadblocks throughout my master's program, as well as ran into some legal trouble right after I graduated from Troy University. And kind of navigating that to be able to get my license to practice.

So, it's been an up-and-down journey. But I think my passion kind of towards helping others just really come from the lack and what I had in my childhood, and really just wanting to help other people navigate through that, because, like, childhood trauma or childhood abandonment, that's some tough shit to navigate. So, that's really kind of what led me to where I am.

Another part of my journey is truly being able to discover my sexuality and coming out as a lesbian in my early 20s and part of my college career. And then that really being a taboo thing at that particular time, and navigating it growing up as a girl in the South. And being raised in a Baptist church was like a really, really strong part of that. And so, like, navigating that was really, really difficult for me.

But that, also, again, drove my passion for serving the LGBTQIA+ community and really wanting to help people that were dealing with that.

And so, like, a lot of how I show up as a therapist has to do with the things that I've gone through, and really just wanting to see people not have to hurt, and really having the support that I wish I had when I was a little bit younger.

PATRICK CASALE: Thank you for sharing that. And it sounds like there's so much wrapped up in this, too. And I agree, like, wholeheartedly, I always say that our niche or ideal clients that we like to serve or support are versions of us. And we find this job and profession for a reason. And I agree, like, trying to figure out ways to heal yourself through the work that you're doing as well, simultaneously, while also learning, and growing, and supporting communities that really need voices and faces who share similar identities.

And I think it's so important, especially in South, right? Like, we're in the South and you said like, it wasn't that accepted back then when you were 20. But like, we're in 2023 and I don't necessarily know if we've gotten that far.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah, I don't think we've gone that far either. I just remember what it felt like in my 20s going through it, hiding it, you know? You know, this is before the age of the internet really being what it is. And I don't know if that's a gift or a curse, because that then, you know, there was a lot of going back and forth on the internet, and around LGBTQ populations, and the church kind of tearing it down. And now you got all of this political stuff going on with, you know, tearing down our community in that way.

And then also, you know, we all see what's going on with Florida and a lot of the stuff that's going on there. You know, if you can't take an AP Psychology class, like, it's really disheartening.

But I guess it's different, because I feel like there are more resources now for the community even though we're going back politically, definitely.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, we're going backwards big time. And it sounds like that is a motivating factor for you to show up, and speak out, and advocate, and have a platform, and share your voice and your story as well, though.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah, it's definitely been a journey. I feel like, you know, certain places, like, I'm trying to get licensed right now in a different state. I don't want to put that out there right now, because they might put my application on hold-

PATRICK CASALE: Sure, sure.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: …because of the fact that I am very passionate about being able to serve the LGBT population in that state, because, you know, they'll say, "Hey, all of this stuff that's going on."

So, yeah, it definitely drives what I do, because a lot of my clients when they come to me, especially, within the community, they don't feel safe. Like, some of them tiptoe around even being able to share, you know, "Hey, I'm curious. Hey, I really want to figure this thing out about myself." Because they always have had spaces where they were judged or they didn't feel safe.

And, you know, even with me being very open about being a member of the community can still be hard for some people to open up.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that it speaks volumes for people to show up in spaces and advocacy spaces, especially, and share their story, and their journey, because that's advocacy in its purest form. And that really has, like, this massive ripple effect in the community. And then that still leads to people who are like, tiptoeing or trepidatious, because there still feels like there can be this fear or this inability to be safe even in a therapeutic space. And that is really unfortunate. And it just speaks volumes of the work that we have to do and continue to do.

So, you have a podcast. And it's very real, it's very authentic. It's all about sharing experiences, and stories of things that you've struggled with, and how it's kind of led to introspection, and awareness, and growth. Tell me a little bit about how that came to be and why that was really a passion for you, and continues to be so?

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah. I think I wanted to just be able to reach more people. You know, in therapy, we can only see so many people. Like, we're human. And so we're very limited in how we can show up. And so I wanted to be able to kind of start from doing like YouTube videos, talking about the community, talking about different things. A lot of it was my personal journey, like me just talking about the stuff that I had worked through, and really just wanting to humanize, not only, you know, us as therapists, but also just realizing that everybody goes through shit. And like a lot of where we are in the world is like this pretentious BS that you see on social media of everyone having it all together.

So, I just wanted to create a space where I could be vulnerable. And I could also have guests be vulnerable and share, you know? I don't only, you know, have professionals on there. I speak with real-life people that are just going through stuff and really want to be able to help others.

So, I just feel it's important for us to not always look at the highlight reel, but really look at the fact that this shit is hard. Like, we're all navigating it or whatever. And I feel like a lot of my clients, you know, when they come to me, it's like, you know, I have a client that always is saying like, you know, "My trusted adult."

And I'm like, "Shit, if I am your trusted adult, like you got stuff going on, because I have a trusted adult that I also see." So, I just wanted out.

And part of that is also normalizing going to therapy as a therapist. It's like we are human, we are flawed, and everybody needs to do the work.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. I agree 100%. I always talk about, like, relatability being accessibility. And I think that if you're able to share your own struggles, the things that you've gone through, the things that you continue to work through as a therapist, it normalizes the human experience, because there's so much shame and stigma still in 2023 about getting mental health care, and looking for therapy, and needing support, and wanting to talk about stuff, because we still have this misconception of like, I have to hold it all in all the time. Or I have to be strong all the time. Or if I go to therapy I'm fucked up. And like, I can't openly admit that to the world.

And the reality is like, just what you said, we are human, we are flawed, we are all going through shit, especially now, right? Like, it feels like everything is feeling intensified, I think, right now. And I just think that if you're not examining this, if you're not openly talking about this, especially, as a therapist, then you're kind of doing a disservice to your clients in your community.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Right. Yeah, I definitely see it that way, because it's like, even a lot of client's idea of what therapy is, I had a client recently tell me, "Oh, I was having such a horrible day. And I had all of this stuff going on. And so I didn't want you to see me like that. I didn't want to be this blubbering mess with you."

And I was like, "Dude! Like, that's what I'm here for." Like, I say my shit sometimes more to my therapist. Alex will tell you like, I come to therapy ready to let it all out. But sometimes, even in this space, people feel like, I can't let you see me that vulnerable, I can't fall apart with you.

And I feel like it's so important for people to know, like, that is the point of it all. The point of it all is being able to be open, be vulnerable, and just let it all out. You know, we're there to help you. We're not there to judge you. We're not there to, you know, tear you down. If you're feeling bad, that is the optimal time for you to go to therapy.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my mind says like, I default to thinking, like, when I go to therapy if I'm in a bad place, this is the perfect time for it. What I really struggle with going to therapy is when I'm like, everything feels pretty good. And like, what do I have to talk about? And I'll tell my therapist that, and kind of beat around the bush for like the first 10 minutes, and then all of a sudden, we're talking about something really deep. And I'm like, "Ah, fuck, I didn't even think about it this way, now I'm on rambling here."

But it's so important. And you're right, like, when people think I have to show up a certain way to therapy, I mean, I think that sends so many different messages. And it's unfortunate, like, we see that in society, we see that in portrayals of therapists in media, of like what therapy is. And there's still such a misconception about, like, what therapy offers, what it can do for you, and why it's so valuable.

And it takes a therapist to show up authentically too, to help that person really drop in, and be okay with being vulnerable, and really feel comfortable acknowledging that, like, I don't have it all together.

Like, I would share some of that stuff when I was seeing clients all the time if they were really struggling to open up, to use some self-disclosure, to help them acknowledge like, it is okay to struggle. Like, I struggle too. And regardless of training, and regardless of experience, like life still lifes, right? Like, life is still happening. And we still experience struggling and challenges. And it's absolutely okay to be open about that stuff.

And I think, I don't know your perspective, I'd love to hear it. But I talk about the power of self-disclosure all the time with therapy clients and coaching clients. And usually, it's met and well received by the therapist community, but sometimes it's like, "Self-disclosing is unethical. And like, this is something you shouldn't be doing. And that's self-centered."

And it's like, no, like, if you're self-disclosing, it's got to be because it's for the client's benefit. Like, it can't be for my benefit. But it can absolutely be beneficial to share with my clients like, I had a gambling addiction. Like, I know what it's like to be there. I know what it's like to experience A, B, and C. And here's how I got out of it.

And I think that is so, so important for us to be able to acknowledge and showcase the fact that therapists are human.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely a fan of self-disclosure as long as it's appropriate self-disclosure. With this person that I saw recently, who was like, "I don't want to, you know, cry. I don't want you to see me like that." I had to have a very open moment of self-disclosure with them and really tell them like, "Dude, like, when I was working in the hospital setting, I went through a really bad breakup, and it was really hard for me and all of my peers in the hospital, they would like to see me, and they'd ask, 'Are you okay? Are you okay? And it's like, I still got to go assess these damn clients. I still got to go here and make sure that, you know, I ask the girl, 'Are you suicidal. Are you homicidal? Are you seeing [INDISCERNIBLE 00:14:41] people.'"

Like, I still had to do my job, because I had bills to pay. But I would go in that office after I saw clients, I would cry my eyes out. And I will go to the bathroom, I'd wash my face. I would get back in there and I will do what I need to do.

And like, my job performance was never impacted, because luckily I am someone who has functional depression when I am depressed. But I do share that. Like, my anxiety journey is something that I share with a lot of clients, because a lot of people don't realize like, shit, you're nervous during the first session, I got nervous during the first session, too. I don't know you either, you know?

And it's kind of like, I'm trying to calm myself down, and get through this and make sure that we can build a rapport, you know? But it's not all on me. But you're not alone in this. You know, so just being honest with people, like, it's okay to be nervous, it's okay to feel these things. But you have to realize you're just humans connecting. And now, you know, that a lot of people are like, "Oh, I should be this perfect, you know, let me ask you these intake questions."

But no, it's about the connection. It's about building that rapport. Like, do not come to me with a checklist. But disclosure is definitely beneficial to clients a lot, because them seeing us as human helps them to connect more.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it, like, helps navigate the power dynamic that is in place when there's a therapist-client relationship. And it also helps, in my opinion, instill this, like, glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel, or this light at the end of the tunnel, when you can say, like, I struggle too. It's normal to feel overwhelmed, anxious, depressed, et cetera. It's okay to have these emotions. Like, these are not bad emotions. These are not negative emotions.

Like, we always, like, I think we paint this picture that like depression, anxiety, all these things are bad or negative. And in reality, it's like, well, not really, this is a part of the human experience. And this is actually quite normal to feel anxious when you're establishing a new relationship with a new therapist, and sharing your story, and being vulnerable.

And like, there's nothing I hate more than, like, standardized clinical intake assessment of like, "Tell me about this history. Tell me about this history. Tell me about this history." And I'm like, this is not useful for me. Like, this is not helpful.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah, it needs to be organic. Like, clients don't want to feel like, oh, I'm checking boxes, like, do whatever. We'll get to that stuff, we will. But usually, if you just let a client tell their story, they're going to tell you everything you need to know. They just need that space.

And I think it is definitely important for them to feel validated. And it is normal to feel anxious, it is normal to feel depressed. Like, half of the population feels that way. And probably more than that, that's just what's statistically reported. So, like, I think it's so important for us to make them understand like, you're not by yourself in this.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely, I agree 100%. And I think also for marginalized groups of people, people who have been oppressed or discriminated against, or feel different, or othered, self-disclosure is even more important. Self-disclosure can be life-saving; self-disclosure can create instantaneous safety.

So, if we're talking about people who are multiply marginalized, check multiple boxes, BIPOC part of the LGBTQ community, etc., being able to self-disclose and show up is actually creating a container for someone to feel like I can be safe here. I can feel seen. I can feel heard. I can feel validated. I don't have to explain things that I have to explain in other parts of my life. And that allows you to just drop in more easily.

And the same thing for neurodivergent folks. Like, autistic ADHDers want to know that you know what it's like to go through the day struggling with your executive functioning, or struggling socially, or feeling some sort of way in your body. Like, people don't want to have to re-explain this.

And if you are able to share a little bit of your own struggle, it really does help create connection, rapport, and relationship. And our work is relational. I think we lose sight of that a lot the time.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah. I think a lot of people do. You get in the clinical part of it and like, I didn't get into therapy or doing this, because of the clinical aspect of it. Like, my undergrad career was in humanistic psychology, like the curriculum was in humanistic psychology. So, you dealing with Carl Rogers and all of that. And I mean, you don't have to get his theory. But a lot of that was really about the connection.

And so I think that's always been deeply ingrained in me to develop that. And I mean, it influences everything that I do, not even just in the counseling room or whatever. But the connection piece, you know, if you're doing it for the money, or if you're doing it because, you know, it just fits into my lifestyle or whatever. Like, you're missing out on really being able to make a big change in people's lives.

Because like Roger said, you know, in order for us to really be able to change within the client setting, we have to be open to the possibility of change within ourselves.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. Yep. And I agree with that 100%. I think what happens for therapists who are listening in private practice, especially, like, you have… maybe the connection is just not there for whatever reason, it's not an ideal match from one side or the other, it's just not a good fit, the rapport isn't there, the client terminates, the client goes to the therapist, the therapist then goes into a shame spiral of self-doubt and impostor syndrome of, "I'm the worst therapist of all time and I don't know what I'm doing."

I really encourage a lot of you to just like, take a couple breaths, a couple steps back, re-evaluate the relationship. I bet it was probably just not the right fit. And that fit and that report is so crucial.

I know for myself as a client of therapy, the therapist could be the best therapist in the world, but if the report isn't there, it's more like just watching someone's mouth moving on the other side of the couch. And I'm like thinking about, "All right, I'm not going to incorporate these strategies, I'm not going to use these techniques, I'm not going to come back to this person after this appointment is done."

And that really is the reality. So, it really goes back to just being human, being curious, and being open-minded to the experience and just being relational in general.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yeah, definitely. My wife was telling me a couple of weeks ago about a therapist that she was seeing, and it was literally just, you know, "Are you suicidal? Are you homicidal? Are you hearing voices?" Like, you know, and it was this checklist of things every time that she got on the call. And she was like, "Yeah, I'm going to give it two more trials." I'm like, "No, I wouldn't have gave it one more try because if…"

I was like, "You're better than me." Like, she has a new therapist she started with this week, so that's been good or whatever. And they actually were able to build a connection. But it is, it's crucial. People do not want to talk to robots. They do not want to talk to someone that is just like, you know, sitting there with their little shawl on, and no disrespect to people who wear those. But nobody wants to see someone that they can't relate to or they cannot connect with, or whatever.

Like, my therapist, our connection has been what it has been because she was definitely human. She was flawed. She didn't try to put on airs with me. It was just very raw. And you know, she doesn't do a lot of self-disclosure. I know absolutely nothing about her, if I'm being perfectly honest. But the connection I've always felt safe in that space.

PATRICK CASALE: Right. That's so important. And I think that's such a good point that you just made. Like, it doesn't have to necessarily go… it has nothing to do with the disclosure piece, even though we were just talking about that. It's just the ability to be human, the ability to let your guard down, and like you said, nobody wants a robotic therapist.

And I am really thankful that it seems like we are moving… Getting this fucking mic right. We are moving away from, like, the head nodding, how does it make you feel? Sounding boards that don't show expression or personality. I think we're moving away from that. And I'm really happy about that. I think that's important for just the current generation of human being that exists.

And I think that it's really, really important for there to be that ability to just be yourself. And that comes with like, being okay with uncomfortable with language, right? Like, I curse a lot. If I had a therapist who, like, made a face when I said fuck, or said some, you know, it would make me then have to think about what I was going to say when I'm supposed to be using the space to be authentic, to be unfiltered, to really be able to be okay with being me.

And that may seem really simplistic, but that is really, really important, being able to just be comfortable with language, being able to be comfortable in terms of how you show up. I think that is unbelievably important and often gets overlooked, because of someone else's discomfort.

So, if you look at our group practice website, there's definitely the word fuck all over it. And on the Home page, it's like authentic human beings. No robotic head nodding, how does it make you feel therapists hear. Vulnerability is fucking scary and that is okay.

And my web designer was like, "I don't think you should put this on your website, I think it's going to turn people off." And I was like, "Actually, what I think is going to happen is it is going to turn some people off. But we are going to get a lot of calls from people who are like, 'Finally I can be myself and I don't have to censor myself.'"

And that is actually what has happened for years. We get calls, we get texts, specifically, saying like, "I called you guys because of the language on your website." And we're able to highlight relatability, and humaneness, and personality, and content creation, for those of you listening for more of the entrepreneurial side of the podcast, that's what clients are attracted to. Clients want to know that you can highlight, like, their experiences, and that you're not going to shame them for being who they are. And that is how you attract the people who actually want to work with you. And I think that's really important to acknowledge as well.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it definitely is because I would definitely be attracted to that website. I added a curse word on my website just to see if people would come. One curse word though, Patrick, one.

But, yeah, I think it is definitely important for people to feel comfortable. And I think it is equally important for us to continue to move away from this old, you know, kind of dynamic within the therapy sessions, because it doesn't work for the current populations that we're serving. It doesn't even work for older populations, to be really is perfectly honest. I have, with some older clients that are just like, "I just love that you're raw and you're honest with me. And you don't sugarcoat anything."

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's important, for sure. And I'm glad to see the shift. And I think it also means that you should, it's also about, like, openly speaking up when you feel safe enough to do so about your values of your practice, your values that you have, if you support the LGBTQ community, if you support the neurodivergent community, the BIPOC community.

Like, those are things to highlight on your website, those are things to highlight in your personality, and your profiles, because people need to know that they're going to be safe enough to call you. People need to know that they're going to be able to see you in a safe environment. And I think that's also very important.

So, it's just a matter of, like, shifting the way we're thinking and really understanding that if we're in this work, it's relational. It's about being curious. It's about being open. It's about being human, and just being able to share with your clients that they don't have to have it all together, because you don't have it all together. And that would be unreasonable to hide, or share, or showcase that, like, example or desire, because that's not human, that's not normal, that's not a part of everyday life.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Right, right. I mean, I think that definitely the showcasing the community piece of like, I don't have to showcase that I'm black, you know. Obviously, people, you know, are probably going to connect with that. If they're BIPOC, they may want to, you know, see a BIPOC therapists or whatever.

But the LGBTQ part is something that I kind of struggled with. Honestly, when I first started actually doing private practice, because I was like, I don't want to be put in this box of being a gay therapist. And, you know, like, I really only disclosed my sexuality in counseling with LGBTQI+. So, like, if I have someone that's curious, they know that they may know that I'm LGBTQ friendly, but they don't know my actual sexuality, because I feel like it can sometimes be distracting for people or, you know, people may have their own agendas, or whatever.

So, I'm really careful with how I share that information. But I do think it's important for people to just know, like, that it is safe, even if that is whatever. I've had clients struggle with even telling me that they were curious, because they didn't want to be judged by me, because they were judged by everybody else. And it's like, yeah, you don't have to worry about that shit here. Like, you do you, just be you.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally. I like that. Just be you. That's a good takeaway from this episode. And I think this is a good takeaway, not even just for the therapy room, but for your podcast, right? Like for your podcast audience, just be you, just be yourself, highlight your personality.

And this has a trickle-down effect in all different sorts of areas. Like, you're going to attract and repel people and audiences based on what you put out there. And that's okay, and you're not going to be for everybody. But at the end of the day, just being able to be you, be yourself, highlight like your personality, share your quirkiness, share some of yourself.

And I really do think that that goes a long way in building relationships and building that know, like, trust factor that if you are a small business owner has to exist.

And I know a lot of us who are in the mental health space did not get any small business training. So, for those of you in, like, private practice, you're like, I think I have to do things this way. And I have to show up this way. And I have to say these things. You know, I want you to just like kind of scrap that and just kind of embrace this authenticity piece of just saying, like, it's okay for me to be a human being, both as a therapist, and as a small business owner.

Anything that you want to share with the audience as we're getting ready to wrap up? Anything that feels really important for you to put out into the world?

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: I think you kind of wrapped it up pretty good with the whole be you piece of it. But you know, just for therapists there, you know, private practice owners that are listening, you know, I do think it is just important for you to know your client base, know what it is that you hope to gain.

I know I started out working with everyone and before I found my niche, and I think it's important to find your niche, and really, you know, strive to just be able to serve that population. It's not to say turn away clients that don't fit that but just knowing that you have your home base in what feels the best for you.

And for clients out there, you know, they may be listening or potential clients just, you know, be yourself when you show up for therapy. It's not your job to be performative. It is your job to get the help. Show up, do the work, and if the therapist is not a fit for you, just be honest about it, open about it. You know, you may hurt or bruise little egos but it's okay therapy is not about the therapist. It's about you're getting what you need out of the relationship. So, just be open and just be you.

PATRICK CASALE: Love it. I really love it. Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. Couldn't say it better myself. Do you want to share with the audience where they can find your podcast and find a little bit more about what you're doing?

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Absolutely. So, you can always connect with me by following me on all social media platforms under the handle @treethelpc. You can also visit the uniquedestiny.org website. And also the Self Aware & F**ked Up podcast is on all streaming platforms. So, you can just look it up by just typing Self Aware & F**ked Up. And Fucked is F-*-*-K-E-D. So, you know, all the censorship out there you got to be careful but nevertheless.

PATRICK CASALE: Navigate those loopholes.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Yes.

PATRICK CASALE: All of that information will be in the show notes so that you can easily find the Self Aware & F**ked Up podcast, so you can easily find any of Sandtrice's social media handles. It will all be clickable links for you. So, really good podcast. I was on it a couple of weeks ago. I had a really good time and just really authentic, raw, and I think it's a really important message that you're putting out into the world. So, thanks for coming on and making the time.

SANDTRICE RUSSELL: Thank you so much, Patrick. It was such a pleasure to speak with you again.

PATRICK CASALE: To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. See you next week.