Episode 143: Revolutionizing Health Equity: Funding and Partnerships [featuring Omolara Uwemedimo]

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the All Things Private Practice Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
✈️ Check out available Retreats
🗨️ Join the free Empowered Escape FB Community
🗨️ Join the free All Things Private Practice FB Community 

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: The Receptionist for iPad & Freed!

✨ The Receptionist for iPad:

I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.

From new patients faced with an empty lobby and no idea where to find their therapist to clinicians with a session running over time and the doorbell ringing, some of the most anxiety-ridden moments of a therapy appointment happen before a session even starts. The Receptionist for iPad, helps you tackle some of that pre-appointment apprehension and anxiety.

The Receptionist for iPad is an easy-to-use digital client check-in system that helps your visitors check in securely to their appointments and notify their practitioners of their arrival via SMS, email, or your preferred channel.

No more confusion and less lobby checking or having clients sign in on paper logbooks. It can even help you upgrade and update your demographic information for your clients as well and even validate parking.

Start a 14-day free trial of the Receptionist for iPad by going to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice. Make sure to start your trial with that link and you'll also get your first month free if you decide to sign up. 

✨ Freed:

I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.

Do you dread doing your notes every day? Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you. It's written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. Just imagine leaving the office at the same time as your last patient. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and takes less than 30 seconds to learn. Artificial intelligence cannot replace you, but it can do the administrative work that no one needs to be subjected to. Get back to doing what you love — helping your patients — and let Freed.AI do the rest.

Go to getfreed.ai and use code ATPP for your first month for free.

Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice podcast. I'm your host Patrick Casale. I'm joined today by Dr. Omolara Uwemedimo. Prompted by a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis in 2019, she transitioned from a career as a professor, researcher, and pediatrician to the co-founder of Strong Children Wellness, a multi-practice healthcare network that partners with communities to provide tech-enabled physical health, mental health, and social care for Medicaid eligible and uninsured children and families. And has secured over $1 million in funding in less than two years with no loans or investors. And this is prompted to create Melanin in Medicine.

And I am really excited to have you on because what we talked about before we started recording is a great topic for our audience to learn how to obtain these contracts and these grants so that we can create more accessibility in our practices because I think so many people go into this field for a reason. And they want to give back, they want to support, but they also need to keep the lights on.

And finding that balance is really tricky. And I think being able to do it in these creative ways is a really great way to do it.

So, thank you for being on here. If I missed anything in your bio that you want to share, please feel free. And tell us a little bit about what you're doing and why it feels so important.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah, thank you, again, Patrick, for the opportunity. So, as he stated, I wanted to let everyone know I'm not in mental health. I'm a pediatrician by training. And this year actually marks 20 years. And my work is primarily, I think, founded from this idea of, like, making sure that health care is justice-driven.

I think that, you know, unfortunately, the business of medicine has made us very siloed in terms of profit, profit, profit. And along the way, I think a lot of us have, like you said, that purpose, and then, the profit takes over. And unfortunately, we're not able to fulfill some of the things that we wanted to have our calling from.

So, how does this work? Where does it come from? I actually I'm the daughter of Nigerian immigrants. And so, a lot of my initial, I would say, career had been shaped by having a global lens, and actually going abroad, and seeing kind of the market health disparities. And so, the initial part of my career was doing global health and working in other countries.

And one of the nice things about that was, there weren't any limits into how we actually created health interventions. And I feel that really helped when I returned back to America, and was really staying here to do work to really think outside the box.

And a huge box that we had was that we had a lot of under-resourced communities that were having difficulty accessing, not just getting basic care, but getting care that really helped.

And what I mean by that is that, for me, a lot of times it wasn't actually the illness that was the issue. It was the social issues around the family. One thing could be homelessness, or domestic violence, or all of these other things, and not having within the clinical setting supports to surround that.

And after a while, I got a little bit frustrated. I had returned from doing clinical medicine into academia. And then, was working within one of the largest health systems in New York, and ultimately, found two other pediatricians who were also equally frustrated at how we were providing care and decided to say, "Could we create a model where we could actually bring care into social service agencies and community-based organizations that were providing those wraparound services?'

And that's how we came up with Strong Children Wellness Medical Group. And that was in 2019, we had the idea. And we got a grant to actually be able to do that in partnership with a nonprofit. And then, we opened our doors virtually a month after the pandemic, April 2020. And August 2020, opened our first brick and mortar.

PATRICK CASALE: Wow. Congratulations. That's amazing. And I love the mission. I mean, just being able to go into other parts of the world, and see how healthcare operates, and the way that we treat people, and to come back and say, "We're doing it wrong in a lot of ways. And we're really not doing people a service."

And I think that's the struggle, like we said, is how do we link the two, right? Between these wraparound services, these support systems, because we have to have our basic human needs met first and foremost, and so many people don't.

And then, if you're in a practice, how to ensure that, like, you're creating that accessibility, you're supporting your community, you're doing what feels mission and passion-filled because I think that's what is a preventative for burnout in so many ways. Because the bureaucracy, and red tape, and the politics that go into, like, mental health and medical care is not what people get into the field for. Like, we don't want to deal with that stuff. But it's a part of so many of these institutions.

So, being able to conceptualize a different way of doing things. And clearly, it's working. I mean, if you were able to obtain funding that quickly, and open a brick and mortar that quickly, and to be able to provide this care, it says this is certainly filling a need and a missing piece, and all of this, too.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: I completely agree. And I think I wanted to shape to people, because it definitely wasn't like, you know, the snap of your fingers, here we go.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: But I think that one of the things that was the lesson that I feel like all of us as practice owners really need to take in is that partnerships are really powerful. And a lot of us are starting this work and doing this work alone. And it just makes it so much more difficult.

And so, how we were able to start and even get access to grant dollars is, I think, a missing, sometimes this black hole that people are like, "You're for profit, how are you able to get access to that?" So, let me kind of unpack that.

One of the things that when I talk about contracts and grants is I'm really talking about how can you partner to profitability. So, how can you say, who is the target population that I want to serve who already is serving that target population, but not providing maybe the clinical part of what I have or that expertise?

So, for example, for us, we partnered with a social service agency that was working in providing youth development services and providing behavioral health services, and social, like, you know, public benefits access, but they did not have primary care for those families.

And so, what we said was, if you can talk to a past funder, tell them that you could partner with us, and subcontract us to be able to provide primary care. And put that in a letter, what we call a letter of intent, and basically give that to the funder, and we would budget out what that will cost. That was how we got our first $125,000.

And it included, you know, some personnel, but also, what it included when we were first starting was the ability for that site to actually be the place where we would provide services. So, we didn't have to open our own brick and mortar. They actually carved out space that we were able to deliver our services, which is a lot easier for mental health practices, actually, even primary care.

So, that was initially how we did it. And within that model, which now I've learned is called fiscal sponsorship, where you know, a for-profit can basically come under a nonprofit to get services, we've been able to do that with multiple organizations for grant dollars, and then, be able to be contracted directly by nonprofits, and have, like, monthly contracts where we bring in our providers to provide services as well.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And I love those differing like perspectives and how this can be done. And it's a win-win, right? Because if those nonprofits are going to the state, or their local governments, or wherever they're getting their grant funding, they can say, "We can increase our positive outcomes, we can actually reduce costs in a lot of ways if we're bringing in this core function that people need to have to be able to sustain themselves." And I think that is the missing piece.

So, for those listening, it's always a big conversation. We've had some people on here who specialize in obtaining, like, school and government contracts, specifically, for mental health care. But this is a little bit of a different shift.

So, can you talk a little bit about like, what this can do for providers in terms of if we are able to obtain these contracts, if we're able to obtain this grant funding. Like, what can this look like?

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah, thank you for that. And I also want to… thank you for making that distinction because government contracts were amazing for, you know, I didn't have the patience for government contracts. So, what we found when working directly with nonprofits was that there was a lot less red tape and we could move through to get to the board and get approval pretty quickly.

So, what does it take and what is the way that we can do this? So, actually, most of us as clinicians, when we think about contracting, we think about our practices being able to provide the health services that we already do to other organizations. However, with a lot of the whether it be social workers, nurse practitioners, physicians that I work with, a lot of times what we actually forget is the fact that we have a bunch of different other expertise that we can share with organizations. This is actually look like getting contracts to provide trainings for staff at the other organization, health education, or groups for the clients of that organization, or even strategic advisory for the leadership of the organization.

And so, there's a continuum that a lot of us don't capitalize and leverage that. Actually, it does not require us to… what is it? Basically, to exchange time for money, but really exchange the value of what we know rather than what we can do. And so, that is a huge piece.

In terms of how we do this work, the first thing is really just being able to identify what is the niche population that you guys as a clinic are really expertised at.

So, for example, we had a mental health practice that very much has a huge expertise in working with sexual assault victims, even though that's not all that their practice does. But they have a core team that has had a lot of experience in that. So, we actually were able to connect them with a wider UCI that does provide social services for that. And that was now an amazing connection.

And they weren't only able to provide virtual mental health, but also, training to the staff around mental health first aid and get contracted dollars to do that.

So, those are kind of the ways that when we think about the depth of what you can offer, as well as how to find the fit with the right organization and thinking about in your practice what's the expertise that you haven't capitalized on?

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And it's so, so important to think about it that way. Because I think mental health clinicians often are kind of short-sighted in terms of what am I really good at? What am I offering? And it's like, "Well, I just do one-on-one counseling." And it's like, "Yeah."

But there's so much more to it than that. And there's so many skills that go untapped in terms of what can be offered within the community. And what you just mentioned is so important because if you're a group practice owner, and you have employees that you really want to pay really well, but you know a recipe to burnout is just seeing client after client after client, the ability to obtain contracts, whether they're grants, with nonprofits, etc., to do other things that allow them to be creative, teach, train, provide support, provide education for, and to get paid, this is a win-win.

And then, you're also helping the community in a different way and having that ripple effect. And I think it's such a powerful tool that goes unused because a lot of the time it's just, "I don't know where to start." And I think that's what comes up a lot of the time.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah. So, that comes up right now. Right now, I'm in the middle of working with a few different practice owners. We're doing a group-based cohort right now. And usually, we do one-to-one, but we're doing group-based work.

And one of the first thing we actually did, our first session, and the first thing we talked about was how do you position your practice? So, let's go and think about what you had bandwidth-wise, some were solopreneurs. So, it was like, "I have very limited bandwidth." So, we're like, "Okay, you're not going to be providing health services, but you might be able to provide trainings or something that requires a little bit of your time."

And then, the other piece was what is my either experience or my expertise, right? And you do that if you have other therapists, you can do that for each one and start to figure out, okay, what do we have here? And what is it that we've done? What is it that we know?

And then, once we do that, we start to think about what is the lowest-hanging fruit and what is the market telling us, right?

So, for example, right now, we're in a space that a lot of organizations are dealing with staff turnover, and burnout, and thinking about if you have people who are very good with like, you know, wellness, and anxiety, and all of those kinds of things may be positioning that expertise as the first type of offer that you can provide.

The other piece around this, though, is finding the right organizations. And a lot of people get stumped about, okay, even if I have this, where am I supposed to go? Who am I supposed to talk to? And I always just start to think really, like, simply, who is serving the people that you want to serve? And also, that you can't serve right now, that's a huge thing where there's a moral tension in some people's practices where they're like, "I am only self-pay, and I can't serve these people. But these are the people I've always wanted to serve." And then, we go from there.

PATRICK CASALE: So glad you named that because that is the moral tension because it really is the, "I'm a self-pay practice or I take commercial insurance, but I really want to work with population A, B, C." Because I'm a solo practitioner, seeing 24 people a week, potentially, 30, which feels like a lot for mental health care, it doesn't allow for that flexibility financially, a lot of the time. Because if you're a solo practitioner, it's like, I can only make as much money as I work, right? And terms of like, cost per session, fee per session type of work.

So, the ability to get more creative with how we bring in funding, allowing you to really support the populations of people that you care deeply about, maybe it's the reason you got into the field to begin with because you can have that identity crisis, as you become more and more established of like, "Am I losing parts of myself?"

I mean, we do live in a capitalist society. It's really hard not to operate within the confines of that society and what we need to do to keep the lights on, to pay the bills, to live our lives, to take care of ourselves. But existentially, that can create a lot of conflict.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Oh, it's so much conflict and it definitely gets, I don't say worse, but it gets more prominent, like you said, as you get more established, as you're seeing, you know, things grow but not feeling the impact, I like to say, and saying okay, yes, what is this actually doing?

A huge piece of this really is for us to reevaluate and say to ourselves, what is it that I really want to create? And then, not to be too ambitious, right? Because some of the time, what I would say is, we don't always have to touch the people, we can touch the people who touch the people. So, if they're the organization and really you guys don't have the bandwidth to let's say, provide direct health services because either that organization can't subsidize the care or can't provide that retainer, you can actually build up skills for those that are interacting with that population to ensure that they're getting the highest quality of care.

And I just want all of us to not get this made, this is a really difficult healthcare system. And at times, especially, as a pediatrician where child health isn't well reimbursed at all, it is frustrating, it makes me angry. And even the work that we have to do to be able to care for everyone equitably, that also gets me a bit angry.

But I think what is really helpful is for all of us to think creatively, and then, be able to not limit ourselves. Like, if we haven't seen that model work, that doesn't mean it can't, right? And it's about having conversations with different organizations to figure out, could we make this work?

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. I think about that a lot. Like, I do a lot of international travel for work, and kind of reframes, and puts things in perspective when you're like, seems like we could do things a lot differently. But if you don't know that things can be done differently, you can become kind of siloed in it of like, this is the only way that this profession works or this is the only way I can survive in this profession.

And I think that is a quick recipe for burnout. And we're seeing such a, like, mass exodus within the mental health field of people who are like, "I'm going into coaching, I'm going into, you know, different things that I can do, because this is just not sustainable for me in the way that our mental health care field and system works."

So, it's trying to find that balance and trying to ensure that you're doing things that feel passion-filled and purpose-driven. And I think it's so important to create longevity in a career path that for medical and mental health workers, like burnout is really high. And trying to figure out ways to be creative, reduce that level of burnout, bring in different streams of revenue. And if you have staff, it helps you pay your staff more, it helps to keep them engaged, it helps you keep them excited to come to work.

And I think that's a big thing right now in trying to figure out that work/life balance because otherwise, yeah, I mean, we're just kind of rinsing, and repeating, and doing the same thing and wondering why it's not working.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah. And I think the other thing is not, like, okay, for example, right now our practice is we're working on a grant that we actually are writing, but most often a lot of grants aren't available for profits, usually. But I think one of the things is that a lot of times we just ignored that as a funding stream.

And what this model that I've been trying to help support practitioners to come into is the idea that you can actually have like an intern on your team looking at grants that are for mental health, for example. Knowing that you can't do that, but now that you have some nonprofit partners, you can actually bring those grants and say, "Hey, would you like mental health on your rack? If you apply for this, we are great to give you the budget on what it would take for us to be able to do this."

And that like, has been such a game changer for so many of our, because they're just like, "Oh wait, like I can actually look at grants? And I don't have to write the grants [INDISCERNIBLE 00:22:00]. And like, yes, both of those things are true. You don't have to.

But it's just allowing ourselves to say, okay, what else is on the table for me? So, contracting, definitely, you know, it requires negotiation and a bit of, but just saying to yourself, can we even have a staff member who is looking for grants for us that we can bring to nonprofits that we've identified could be really great partners with us. Especially, those nonprofits may not be, you know, multimillion-dollar nonprofits that already have in their budget the ability to contract you. This is a great way to serve the communities you want to serve and take advantage of those funding streams.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I love that. That's such great advice and perspective, too. For those people who are listening who are like, "Okay, this sounds wonderful. This is exactly what I want to do. I still don't know where to start. I've identified the populations I serve, I identify the agencies in the area who serve those populations, then what?" What-

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah, so we talked about, so the identity piece, which is what you said, evaluating what the practice infrastructure is, what you can do, what the offer is. The innovation of like, okay, this is what we can offer. And then, the next part is introduction. So, that is usually the part where people get a little scared, and they're like, "Okay, how am I going to reach out to this the sweet person?"

And I say that there are two levels to this, right? There are warm handoffs, and then, there are cold ones. And so, ultimately, once you find the organization, you're looking to see who's on the board, who's a staff member, and kind of see, is there any connection that I have? If you do have a connection, you're supposed to capitalize on that. It doesn't have to be anyone who is in leadership, it could be the staff that are able to share with their leaders about the work that you're doing.

But the other way is actually, we actually teach people how to do emails and how to do them in a way that actually grabs the attention of a C-suite person because they are very specific, just a few pointers, very specific, very much identifying that this is a collaboration and an opportunity to not, "Hey, this is what I can do for you." But to learn more, and to show a reverence for the fact of what they're doing, and where you see, like, there's a potential collaboration, right? Because we definitely, our goal is to, basically, see if we can do what's called a discovery call and just learn more about what's under the hood. And what are the pain points. This is not a call to be like, "These are the offers that we can provide. And here this is what we're going to give you."

So, I think when we position ourselves to introduce ourselves to organizations, we position it from a level of reverence and knowledge that I've seen, this is what you do. It's amazing, I think there might be a potential to support that work from our end. I'd like to learn more about what you do.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And this is like, this feels like what I teach mental health professionals with in terms of like networking, and how it's just reciprocal relationship building. And it's not just like send out email blasts of like, "Hey, I'm taking clients, here's my website, send them my way." It's like, no, let's build a relationship, let's collaborate, let's really figure out a way where this can be a win-win, not just for our partnership, but for the community at large. And really offering that perspective.

And I think it's a really great way to start getting comfortable, for those of you listening who are like, "That feels really intimidating." Sure, it's intimidating. But I think being able to move into that uncomfortable space can lead to such tremendous growth opportunity that often goes missed or unchecked, or, for the most part, like, unaware that it's even an option for you to build this into your practice as well.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah, and I think if people put it into perspective, right now a lot of people are spending their time on social media marketing to clients and hoping the algorithm puts their stuff in front of one potential client, while you can strategically meet with an organization that has 200, 2000 of the people that you could serve through one conversation that's specifically direct. So, it's just a different marketing strategy. It's actually just an old-school strategy, right? Like, when we didn't have the internet, where people were meeting with people, and actually doing that.

And I think, as we both know, when there's an actual connection with people, especially, if it's via email, or a person, the conversion to actual sales, or you know, whatever the outcome is, is much higher with that.

And ultimately, once we are able to introduce and have that discovery call, then we're able to say to ourselves, okay, with this interaction, what is the potential proposal or scope of work that I can provide that fits their pain points. And usually, our goal for a discovery call is at the end of that call to be able to be invited to share a scope of work, or a potential proposal in the next few weeks.

PATRICK CASALE: Love it. Sounds fantastic to me, and you're doing incredible work. So, you didn't really talk about Melanin in Medicine. So, tell me a little bit about that.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah, thank you for pulling me back into my business hat because sometimes… So, yeah, Melanin in Medicine really grew out of, initially, it grew out of me being a black woman, physician, and kind of like, you know, moving into entrepreneurship and realizing there weren't a lot of us who had communities around that.

But really Melanin in Medicine, the goal that we've extended to is supporting BIPOC clinicians in any field, right, who are running practices, and really trying to keep them alive, keep those practices not only alive, but also, able to grow, and sustain, and do health equity work. That is my mission.

And we have been able to do that through Strong Children Wellness, which is, you know, now a seven-figure group practice, and we have multiple locations, we have been able to stay, and have 85% of our patients on Medicaid through having this diversified revenue stream. Because otherwise, the way that our system is built, having certain populations that are low income, underinsured, or uninsured is pretty much unsustainable, and definitely not profitable to make sure that you do sustain.

So, what I do in Melanin in Medicine is me and my team, we actually either do one-to-one support. And now as I mentioned, we have some group programming that we're able to take BIPOC clinicians, bring them in, and actually look at their practices, help them figure out how to position the practices, find the right nonprofit partners in their locale, and then, actually help them craft the outreach materials that they need, and walk them through implementation support.

So, as they schedule the discovery calls, mentoring through, okay, this is what we found, great. I think this should be the offer, and then, helping them do their proposals and get those approved for funding.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. Now, I know a lot of people listening right now are like, "Oh, this is someone I'm going to have to contact because that is a hell of a offer and a hell of a way to support people in these fields." So, that is really, really cool.

As we get ready to wrap up, things that you just want to leave the audience with or things that you've kind of learned along the way over the last couple of years with this journey?

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Oh, okay.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:30:05]. 

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: That's a big one. I think, you know, just in the entrepreneurial journey, I think a big piece for me has been wellness. And that's funny that, like, our thing is Strong Children Wellness. But I think if we start with being able to say to ourselves, what feeds me, and energizes me, and what drains me? It's a really important do-not for me, right? In terms of thinking about, okay, what is it that I can do? Versus what is it that I should be doing?

So, I think that is really important, and being able to say to yourself that how can I creatively build our team in a way that is cost effective? We've done a lot of work partnering with school, and MSW interns, and MHA, Masters of Health Administration interns, to really help expand our team in a cost-effective way that allows for you to show up clinically if you're doing clinical work, but allows for people to be allocated to do that administrative piece so that you are able to show up in the way.

So, I think doing that has been a game changer. And introducing people to that level of expansion of our team in a cost-effective way has been eye-opening.

I mean, the other big thing that I think is, particularly, important outside of that wellness and expansion of the team piece is getting my information out there about what we're doing, but not in a way that is for patients, but really about how you position yourself to other organizations, right?

And so, LinkedIn, for a lot of practice owners, we actually tell them how to, like, build out their LinkedIn profile in a way that is very different from how they're doing work on Instagram, in terms of this consulting arm that they have in their practice. And also, being able to think about what is it that organizations who need you are dealing with? How can you position that? I think that's been a game changer for us in terms of SCW, Strong Children Wellness, because we've been approached with funding opportunities because of the fact that we just are very vocal on my personal profile about this is what we're doing. This is what we feel in this space. And being a thought leader and sharing kind of the work that we're doing around that specific space.

So, being very vocal. And thought leadership can also be a way to fund and bring new revenue into the company.

PATRICK CASALE: It's great advice. This has been a wonderful eye-opening conversation. And I just want to applaud all the work that you're doing. It sounds absolutely amazing. And I know it's having a really big impact and a ripple effect within the community at large too, so congrats on everything that you've created, and really excited to see what happens next. And I'll definitely be putting people in touch with you.

So, for those who are listening, who want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to find out all of this information?

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Yeah, so we do have like a Bitly, which has all of the links, of course, it's bitly/melanininmedicine. But I think the best place for that just come on Instagram and go to Melanin Medicine Co. Or find me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn in terms of the DM. So, either of those places. I'm not on Facebook. I'm off Twitter now. But yeah, I had a big following on Twitter, and I was like, "I can't do this anymore."

PATRICK CASALE: I have never actually opened Twitter in my life. I refused to. I just cannot open more social media apps. Like, after [INDISCERNIBLE 00:33:57] I had a video go viral on Tiktok. I had like millions of views and I deleted the app. I was like, "I can't do this anymore." It was just not worth it for me.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Exactly. So, Instagram and LinkedIn, you can find me, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: We'll have all that information in the show notes for everyone too, so you all will have easy access to everything that Dr. Uwemedimo just shared, sorry, just butchered that. And really, really cool stuff. I'm really impressed by everything you're creating. And I really appreciate you making the time to come on here and share all this, too.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Thank you so much for the opportunity. As I said, I'm just really impressed by how much you're giving the listeners and a lot of the information to just make sure that we can survive and spread [INDISCERNIBLE 00:34:46]. And thrive, and thrive.

PATRICK CASALE: Survive and thrive for sure. But I think we're all in this together. So, like we can continue to build each other up, and support each other, and share this knowledge, and ensure that people just have careers where they have this impact. I think that's what it's all about.

So, thank you again. And I really appreciate you making the time.

OMOLARA UWEMEDIMO: Thank you.

PATRICK CASALE: And to everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, and share. And doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.