Episode 148: Combatting Burnout: Safe Retreats for Neurodivergent Individuals [Gabrielle Juliano-Villani]

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You're listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice podcast. I am joined today by a good friend and repeat guest, Gabrielle Juliano-Villani. She's an LCSW, the founder of GJV Consulting and Training, I almost mixed up the letters, entrepreneur, therapist, international speaker, retreat coach and host, business coach for the SBA, sound healer, and trainer, and Medicare expert extraordinaire.

Today, we are going to talk a little bit about hosting retreats and we're going to talk about co-hosting our own neurodivergent burnout retreat in Belize, in January of 2025.

And you just got back from hosting your second retreat in Belize like a couple of days ago. And here you are.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: I know. So, this is very good timing. And I'm excited [INDISCERNIBLE 00:01:47] with you.

PATRICK CASALE: Me too. So, tell me and the audience a little bit about how it went. And why Belize? Like, why continuing to go back to this country? I've never been here, so I'm super excited. But it's definitely one that wasn't really on my radar.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Well, when I was thinking about hosting retreats at first, I did want somewhere that was, like, kind of wellnessy because that's kind of the focus of my retreats. And, of course, Costa Rica and Bali, everybody hosts there. And I was like, "I like Costa Rica, but it's become very…" We never were as touristy but like it just seemed like everybody goes there. And I was like, "I want something a little bit crunchier, a little more salt in the earth, a little more rustic." Because that's also my vibe.

And I have been to Belize on vacation in 2019 with my husband. And I was like, "That actually will be a perfect place. And I don't see a lot of people hosting in Belize." So, that helped me.

Plus, there's like some other things, logistically, that I like about it. Like, it's in central time zone. There's a lot of direct flights. The language is English. So, it's like very easy to get to. But I also just love the culture. I love the vibe. I love the people. I love the food. It's so much different than Costa Rica. And so, like, the energy and the feel is what keeps me going back.

And at my retreat that I just got back from that was a lot of the feedback that I got for people, too, is that they just loved it, which is nice.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that is nice to hear, positive feedback about this experience. I think that you left out the kinkajous, the toucans, the all-inclusiveness. But yeah, all of that sounds awesome.

And you're speaking my language when you're saying, like, off the beaten path, a little more rustic, less touristy. All of my events, typically, are in places that people don't go to. Or if they do, they certainly go don't go to these locations.

Like, Ireland is in a medieval village in the middle of nowhere. If you tell people in Ireland you're going to [PH 00:04:06] Ferns, they're going to look at you and say, "Where the hell is that?"

And I love that because it's like as local as can be. And it really does allow you to immerse yourself in culture, which was always a goal of mine. Like, how do I get people off the beaten path, immersing themselves in culture, having local experiences that they would not typically have on their own vacations. And that's the stuff that I really love.

So, I'm excited for the fact that we're going to be at this resort in a jungle in Belize, like near Mayan ruins and just having that experience.

And you're definitely significantly more, I'll use the word "woo" than I am. And will use the word crunchy, so we'll just throw that in the mix. And I think that's a good balance in this, especially, for neurodivergent folks who are burnt out with a very specific type of burnout. It's not like burnout that's going to be cured by a bubble bath, a glass of wine, and going to the beach for the day. This is stuff that has been happening and accumulating sometimes for years if people are not taking care of their sensory systems if their executive functioning is really struggling. But they're having to push themselves to either be an entrepreneur, show up at work every day, or whatever the case may be. And then, the energy absorption piece, and everything that gets louder, and more amplified, and more overwhelming.

So, the ability to take people to a really peaceful, serene, beautiful location feels pretty damn good right now.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: I could not said have said that better myself. And I think, yes, also wildlife is hugely important to me because I have an obsession with animals as is Patrick. And-

PATRICK CASALE: And as evidenced by our DMs to each other on Instagram.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Yes. Lots of bread pandas and lots of sloths, which are very important to my well-being as well as are the kinkajous, and the toucans, and all of that.

And I was actually just on a podcast recently, and her podcast is all about nature. And so, we were talking about the importance of nature in my retreats. And that just kind of goes along with this is, is it is really important to me. And it's like the way of life there, like a lot of other places in the world, it's just slower. You wake up with the birds, and you're hearing the birds, and you're hearing, like, the breeze through the trees, and the howler monkeys. And you don't you don't get that in Sarasota, Florida. You do get birds but you don't get howler monkeys.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, Asheville, North Carolina, you know, we've got the free-range bears running around everywhere. But thankfully, you know, well, not thankfully, we don't have the peacefulness of like, just being in the jungle listening to the birds, listening to the monkeys. It's more like, "Oh, get your dog and get inside because there's a black bear walking down the street." [CROSSTALK 00:06:58]-

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: …a fight or flight situation, so we want to have less of that if we can.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, if we can avoid that at all costs I think we've done a good job.

So, tell me a little bit and tell the audience a little bit about some of your approach because I know you're really, really big on polyvagal theory, you're really big into, like, the holistic healing sound baths, energy healing, etc. How does that play a role in these events? And how can that support, especially, support our neurodivergent folks who will be showing up?

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Well, I'm late diagnosed ADHD. So, I was diagnosed two years ago. And you can listen to the podcast I did with Patrick. I think it was late last year about burnout where we talked about that deeper.

But one thing that stuck out to me is that I just… this, like, almost makes me emotional because it's like frustrating for me that it took so long to figure this out because all of the shit that everybody tells you to do none of that worked.

And I did all the things. I got massages. I took vacations. I made my caseload lower. I, like, did all of the stuff. I went to therapy and like, nothing was healing me. And I wasn't feeling better. And I was like, "This is so annoying that like, yeah, other people will say." Like, I took a month off of work. And I, like, felt really energized and creative again. And not me, but I have done that.

And I think when I started learning about polyvagal theory, it felt really overwhelming to me because they need to change the name first of all because it sounds super sciency and it's not. And once I started learning more, and doing therapy with a therapist who's polyvagal informed, that is when it just, like, the light bulb went off. And I was like, "Oh, why didn't nobody told me this shit 10 years ago." Like, I didn't understand the how, and the why, and like the deepness of it.

And that's why as you're listening or watching, you can probably tell that's why I'm so passionate about this is because every single person has a nervous system. That is the foundation for everything. It's the foundation for our emotional regulation.

And when you start to understand, like, oh, something really small, like for me, I like a slow morning. And I don't take meetings usually until 10:00 except for today I started at 9:30 but that's a different problem. Normally, it's not till 10:00 because I know that I need that slowness to start my day because if I don't, if I start working or have meetings at 8:00 AM, I'm going to feel rushed. And if I feel rushed that pushes me more sympathetic fight or flight, the rest of my day is going to be like that. Then it's going to fuck me up for the evening, and then my whole week. And like, I know this about myself.

And that is why in my retreats I teach people to understand this about themselves so that you can make your own accommodations and understand what works for you and what doesn't. And as entrepreneurs, you have control over all of that. And you can make your business fit your life the way that it needs to so that you don't have to go through all the shit that I went through.

And so, I guess, to go along with that, like, sound healing and energy work was also very helpful for me because it's just surrendering, which is hard for a lot of people. But I can just lay there and have things released and worked on. And I have seen what it's done for people.

And at my last retreat that I just got back from, I asked everybody, you know, what was your favorite part? And all of them said sound healing. And a lot of them had never done it before. So, I find it very powerful.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I love that. I mean, both descriptions of the polyvagal work and the sound healing. And I think for us, like, for neurodivergent folks who are listening, you know, the problem is, right, like, at the end of the day traditional typical techniques and strategies don't work for our systems. And they're not designed to. So, when it's like, "Oh, you know, do these five things, and all of a sudden, you're going to feel better." It's like, no, that doesn't work.

So, being able to really understand the neurology, the sensory system, how important sensory soothing is, how important unmasking is to combat neurodivergent burnout. So, if you're a high masker, and you're going through life having to force eye contact, sit still, present in certain situations and present and in specific ways, or you have to act a certain way in certain environments because that's what society says you're supposed to do, there's so much energy that goes into acting in a way that doesn't match your needs. And then, when you get home, you ultimately just crash. And that's not useful long term.

And some of these burnout situations can take years to get out of. It's not a simplistic fix. So, having this intentionality where you and I are both neurodivergent entrepreneurs, and I think we have different strengths here where you're going to definitely be helping people regulate their nervous systems, really get in touch with their sensory systems, really release some of this energy and expectation, where I am much more focused on like, as an autistic ADHDer, organization, structure, understanding how to, like, really remove all the extra layers of things so we can just get to the point and we can get our stuff going, being able to help people fine-tune and optimize their business, and their day-to-day, so that they're not wasting their time and their energy going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole, and being able to really create more efficiency and focus and clarity. Because I think that's important. Otherwise, it can feel like we're just lost in the idea phase. And that can be really defeating when you're like I have all these creative ideas, but I can't implement any of them. That can be so frustrating.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: And that's why I'm so excited for us to do this together is because people, also, maybe we know this, but we just kind of, like, push it to the side. Like, these two things are very tied together because you cannot make good decisions. And you cannot get into that place where you have flow, and where you have creativity, and where you can implement those ideas if you're in fight or flight or freeze.

And if you don't know that you're going to keep masking and keep forcing yourself to push through and it just creates more and more problems. And it gets worse and worse and worse. So, these two things are so intimately tied together. It's huge, so…

PATRICK CASALE: It is, it is. That's a great point. And just being able to be in a space, I think, there's an important component here. Like, I run a lot of retreats and summits but my business partner for most of them is neurotypical. She's wonderful. She's very good at, like, accommodating neurodivergent needs and understanding communication. However, she is not neurodivergent. There are not a lot of places that are explicitly for neurodivergent people in totality. So, having a group setting where everybody there will be neurodivergent is really powerful. And it also means that you can unmask a little easier. You can drop in a little bit simpler. You don't have to, like, explain why you do A, B, and C, or respond to things a certain way. Or there's no pressure to show up a certain way. I think that is unbelievably freeing and super liberating. And something that we just don't see a lot of in our society.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Even with retreats too, specifically, because some of the things I have heard from people is like, you know, like, "I don't want to do that." Or like, "Do I have to do that?" Or, "Do I have to share?"

And I'm like, "No. Like, you paid for this experience, if you want to lay in bed all day and sleep, and that's what you need, then go ahead and do that. Like, you don't need to be forced to show up a certain way."

And this also came up in my retreat in January because people were like, "What are we wearing? Are we going to do our hair? Like, what is the outfit situation?" And nobody wore makeup, everybody just was themselves and was comfortable. And that was the feedback that I got from a lot of people too, which made me also feel really good that like, yeah, you can just show up as yourself. You don't need to get, like, dressed on and wear a cute outfit. Like, no, just be you.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. I think just be you is a big portion of this. And at all of our events, I always start during introductions just letting people know, "Hey, I'm autistic ADHD, sometimes I need to step away. Sometimes I need to sensory soothe. Sometimes I need to remove myself from overwhelming and overstimulating situations, or social situations. It's not personal. It's just something I need to do to make sure that I show up as my best version for you."

And I think doing the same thing with our guests and offering that permission for them to say, "Hey, if you want to get up and stand if you want to get up and pace, if you want to fidget, if you want to just get up and leave that's okay. If you want to be in different environments, the entire experience where you don't want to participate, that's also okay."

Giving permission to do the things that we so often have to mask, or contain, or keep to ourselves, for whatever reason, is so freaking powerful. So, I just want to highlight that because that's something that goes unsaid in a lot of these events. And it's just really important to model that behavior as the retreat hosts and to really make sure that all of you who are attending are going to be as comfortable as possible.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Even like, I still have [INDISCERNIBLE 00:19:43] is it's like so ingrained in me, but I have a lot of, like, sensory things with clothes and how they seal on my body.

And when I was just in Belize, my husband is very good, I say, at anticipating my needs. And I was like, "I have to wear this dress because I bought this dress for, like, this specific night, but I don't like the way it feels like right here. It's like too tight and it's scratchy."

He's like, "Why are you going to be uncomfortable? Just wear, like, the big flowy thing." I'm like, "No, because I have to. I bought this one for this." And he's like, "Nobody cares, just be comfortable."

So, even that, like that seems so small and stupid. But if I had worn that goddamn dress I would have been miserable the whole night. But that's like, ingrained in me that I'm like, "Oh, I am the retreat host I have to be a certain way." But when I am myself, right? My authentic self, and I just let all that go, and it's a better experience for me and for everybody else there, too.

PATRICK CASALE: Without a doubt. And I think authenticity is key here for neurodivergent people. Like, the authenticity, seeing through the bullshit, just being real, and not having to have those, like, societal expectations of how you're supposed to show up or how you're supposed to engage.

And I think that's an important component of this too. I've wanted to create or co-create an environment for so long where we can harness and channel the amazing amount of creativity that neurodivergent folks, especially, ADHDers have in their business journeys, we can harness and channel the structure, the need for consistency, the need for breaks, and create some boundary within work/life balance for our autistic folks to really help them avoid autistic burnout. And really make people feel as safe and comfortable, heard and understood as humanly possible, while also building friendships and connections for people who often so struggle in social environments and situations to come away feeling like really refreshed, really rejuvenated, feeling really full, feeling really connected, really empowered to go back into the world.

I know that a lot of our guests who are already attending are sending me ideas like, "Hey, have you seen this type of miniature fan that like has mist on it? Have you seen this neck-cooling device that I'm going to bring? What are your thoughts on like, putting clothing in the freezer and then putting it on to go outside?" I'm like, "Yo, I'm here for all these ideas. I'm hot all the time. Anything we can do in these environments to sensory soothe I am all about it."

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: I even told Patrick, for anybody listening, I was like, "If it's hot then we will just talk in the pool." Like, we can do that. Like, this is our thing. And I had people do that last time where they were like, "I just want to sit over here because I'm hot." I'm like, "That's fine. I don't care what to do. You can float in there if you want. If you want to sit under the umbrella, if you need to get up and pace, like, that's totally fine." Like, you get to create an environment that supports you while you get to still engage and build these amazing connections and community because I think that's one of the most important part of retreats that I always walk away with.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. Even as someone who despises socializing, most of the time, I really like watching everyone come together, and the group form, and people connecting. And I'll be on like a fly on the wall, just, like, taking it all in. And I'm like, "Okay, this is pretty cool. Like, you create created this thing."

And just watching like, some of the business partnerships that have come out of some of my events, people traveling the world together, people going on other events together, co-creating businesses together. Like, I love that shit. So, I find that super inspiring.

So, since I have not been to Belize, set the stage for what we should expect at the resort that we're going to, the Sweet Songs resort in San Ignacio. So, tell us a little bit about the environment. Tell us a little bit about some of the tours that we're getting into. Anything that feels like really powerful for you.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah, like, I just get such a good feeling in my gut when I think about it there. Like, I just feel pulled to it. And when I did a site visit there because I'd never been there before I decided to host there. And I did a site visit last June, which, by the way, don't do that. But I just had a feeling, okay.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:09]. I never went to Ireland at all. I just booked everything. I mean, I've been to Ireland, but I had never done the location, the event that I did. And I just showed up and I was like praying. I was like, "I am just hoping this is not terrible." Like I don't know what else to say at this point. So, I totally get that. And I don't recommend doing that.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Sometimes you just got to listen to the intuition.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:33].

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: But I did end up doing a site visit. And when I got there, like we went, and we unpacked a little bit. And then, my husband and I walked down to the river that runs right next to the resort where we will have bonfires and stuff. And we're sitting there kind of like just being, I guess, I'm not sure they say meditating, but just being present. And I was so freaked out about this retreat. Like, it was my first one. And like I couldn't even really be as present as I wanted to because I was so anxious.

I was like, "Please give me a sign. Somebody give me a sign that this is what I'm supposed to do." And I opened my eyes, and we're sitting at the river, and I was like, "A big fish is going to jump out. That's going to be the sign and I'm going to know." And there was no big fish. I was like, "Fuck, I'm fucked. Like, why did I sign this contract?"

So, we go back up to our room. And then, the second I opened the door to our room I noticed the curtains behind the bed are the exact same curtains I have in my office. And I was like, "Thank you, that was the sign that I needed." 

And so, this place is very special to me. Like I said, it's a little bit more rustic. We are outside of San Ignacio. So, San Ignacio is a little town but like, we're in the jungle and it is, like, just us at this resort, in these little casitas. Like, just the canopy of the jungle is amazing. Every morning at breakfast the little, they call them Rasta birds because they have like the reggae colors on them. But they're called aracaris. And they look like little miniature toucans. And they come every morning. And they eat the fruits. And the kinkajous which are like, I don't even know how to explain what those are. They're like little creatures.

PATRICK CASALE: Look it up if you need to.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah, they're so cute. And they come at dinner. And you feed them bananas. And like, the people are just so proud to be Belizian. And they are so proud that you are there. And they will just talk about their culture over and over again.

It's a smaller resort. And the company that owns it, Muy'Ono, they only hire locals. With every reservation, they give back like 3% to the community. It's an eco-lodge, so there's, like, no single-use plastics. So, they take care of the environment. They have farms, so all the vegetables that we get are literally farm-to-table. And we're very close to Xunantunich. They call it tuna sandwich because you could never say it. It's a Mayan temple. And that's I'm really excited for us to do because it's one of the only ones in the world that you can still climb. So, we can literally be where the Mayans were and hike up that. And you just like, feel the energy. And so, it's going to be really amazing.

PATRICK CASALE: Sold.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: And there's a pool, and there's a river, and there's air conditioning.

PATRICK CASALE: Already sold, sold. Definitely need all of those things. But it sounds really wonderful. And I like the fact that it's small because, again, if we're focusing specifically on neurodivergent events and neurodivergent people, we want a small intimate environment, we don't want to have loud, noisy, overly stimulating environments because I've been a part of my own retreats where we've done, like, day trips to Barcelona, day trips to Lisbon. And although I love those cities to some degree, talk about hell overwhelming and overstimulating.

So, like, the ability to be in nature, to just kind of disconnect, to really be a part of that sounds really wonderful. I think it's a great way to start the new year off, especially, if you're out there thinking like, I am just really getting by right now. Like, I am white-knuckling through getting through the week because I don't have something to look forward to. I am so overwhelmed. I'm so overstimulated or understimulated. I feel like things are chaotic in my business and my life. I feel like, I'm really feeling the strain of the energy that I absorb as a neurodivergent human. I really want you to think about that stuff and that feeling, compared to what Gabrielle just said, like, setting the stage for what this is going to be like, especially, when you got super animated and excited about the kinkajous eating bananas. Like, that's a real thing. The excitement is real. I mean, just the experience is so, so, so cool.

So, if you have questions about this event, or about our retreat hosting experiences, Gabrielle's now hosted two successful events in Belize. I just went through hosting five in a row in the last six months.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:29:40].

PATRICK CASALE: Listen, I look at my calendar and I'm like, "What did ADHD Patrick agree to?" And autistic Patrick is more like, "Can we get out of this somehow?" But, you know, I do enjoy the travel component and the connection piece.

And I think for so many neurodivergent folks who have ever felt like not a part of or maybe on the outside looking in or just strange, weird, quirky, eccentric, different, et cetera, this is really what this is about and just creating an environment where you feel really supported, and really affirmed, and really seen, and really re-energized, and trying to get back to basics a little bit.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: It's a good way to start the year and to come on from the holidays, which are always-

PATRICK CASALE: Shit shows.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: [INDISCENIBLE 00:30:30]. Yes, shit shows. And like, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:30:33] and stress, and like all of that stuff. Like, I don't know, I think, it's really good timing, especially, if you live somewhere where it's cold and gray. Like, we are like little plants, we need sunshine. It doesn't need to be 100 degrees. But like, you need a little bit of the sun. And so, it's a great time to go to Belize, also, when it's not going to be too hot there actually, and there's not a lot of rain. So, it's a beautiful time of year to visit. And yeah, it's easy to get to. And I can't wait to show it to you, and to be there with you after seeing you in Italy.

PATRICK CASALE: Oh, yeah, so it'll be Italy in September, then Ireland in March, and Belize in January, and Spain in May, and Scotland in July, and Spain in September, yeah.

But in my own defense and accommodation to prevent neurodivergent burnout from happening again to me next year like it did this year, I'm only scheduling events in the odd-numbered months. I'm only saying yes to things in odd numbered months, and absolutely refusing to put anything in between. So, that is my workaround right now.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: I love that workaround, that's huge. And you got to set those boundaries. And you just said it for everybody listening so we're all going to hold you to it.

PATRICK CASALE: I do need to be held accountable like that, but I really feel strongly after this year it was just too much. Asheville in January, Norway in February, Ireland in March, Spain in April, Alaska in May, Greece in May, never again.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Never again, don't do it. I'm going to practice what I preach, odd numbered months only next year, that's my intention. Before we go, anything you want to share with the audience about where they can find you, your coaching services, any of your alternative streams of income, anything you've got going on.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Yeah, I have just a couple of streams of income.

PATRICK CASALE: Just a couple.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: You can hear about those in Spain in September 2025, actually.

So, yeah, if you want to work with me, I do business coaching for therapists on how to scale into group practice, conscious leadership, how to sell your business. If you didn't know, I also, to my own burnout, sold my practice in 202. So, I help people strategize on how to do that and how to add in additional income streams. And then, I also specialize in compliance for Medicare and Medicaid. So, if you're an insurance-based practice, I can help you with that too.

And then, you know, on the total opposite side of the spectrum, I also do intuitive readings and I do sound healing. So, if you want something like that, I can also do that with you over Zoom as well.

And I'm pretty easy to find because of my super long name. It's just gabriellejulianovillani.com. That's the same on Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn, and YouTube. And then, my Instagram is @gjvconsulting.

PATRICK CASALE: Perfect. And if that's not an ADHD entrepreneur, I don't know what is. You have 700 different streams of income and different interests. So, yeah, awesome. Thanks for coming on for the third time. Looking forward to traveling the world together over the next year and a half. And we will have all of Gabrielle's info in the show notes for you too, so they have easy access to all of her information.

GABRIELLE JULIANO-VILLANI: Perfect. Thank you.

PATRICK CASALE: And to everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out on every single Saturday on all podcast platforms and YouTube. Make sure to use code neurodivergent at checkout for the Belize retreat. It'll get you $250 off your registration and your deposit. Those spots are going quick. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. And we'll see you next week.

PATRICK CASALE: To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.