Episode 149: Creating Memberships: Alternative Income and Accessible Support for Therapists [featuring Shaelene Kite]

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm joined today by a really good friend and a return guest, Shaelene Kite. She is a counselor in New Jersey who is a certified DB-trained therapist. She is a yoga instructor. I'm messing up all the acronyms because I don't have her bio in front of me.

SHAELENE KITE: You're doing great off just pure memory. And so, that's great.

PATRICK CASALE: She's a national speaker, a summit host, the co-founder of Stabilize & Scale alongside Katie Keates May. She is a membership host of a DBT membership, a group practice owner. And there are probably other things.

SHAELENE KITE: That was good, though. That might have been more than what I would remember about myself.

PATRICK CASALE: I hate bios and I hate having them read in front of me. I always cringe. Today, Shaelene and I are going to talk about something that we actually haven't talked about on this podcast yet, which I actually think is kind of interesting. But creating a membership site. A lot of you are looking for alternative streams of income. And a membership site is a great way to build community, create alternative streams of income, and also, just kind of use your knowledge and expertise to get in front of more people.

So, Shaelene, welcome back to the show. And tell us a little bit about the membership that you've created. And who it's for? Why it's important? All the things.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, sure. Well, thanks for having me back, I think, it's my third time on the podcast, very exciting.

PATRICK CASALE: You were with Gabrielle Juliano-Vullani here [CROSSTALK 00:02:35]-

SHAELENE KITE: That's great. You should have us both on together. That'll be the next thing. But yeah, so excited to talk about memberships. My membership is the Rebel Minds Learning Collective. It launched in March back when we were in Ireland. And yeah, so it's only been a couple of months out. But it's a DBT training membership.

And the reason that I started it is, there's like a lot of reasons that I started it. But I would say, like, the main things were just seeing like a big gap for therapists, specifically, in DBT, where like, they come, and they do their initial training, like the five-day training. But then, there's way much more than what can be fit in that training to be able to, like, do the therapy and do it well. And I'm sure that's the same for probably everything, like EMDR, IFS, all of these different modalities.

And in doing DBT for like over a decade now, and seeing other people go through it, I've just seen, like, how, you know, you talk a lot about impostor syndrome. And I just see how that shows up. And I think a lot of people think, like, when they're in DBT, they think like, "Oh, it must be this modality. It's just so challenging."

And I think that, like, yeah, sure learning anything new is really challenging. And it requires a lot of support. And I just found that the support was missing, the support that I wanted for all my team was missing. And then, just like the cost of going to a shit ton of trainings is a lot of money. So, I wanted to provide community support. And I wanted to, like, help DBT evolve, too, with like the times. And so, that's why I created it.

I mean, yeah, it's another stream of income. But I wanted to make a place for DBT therapists to come and feel like they can gain more confidence, and competence, and help it evolve, and make it all in like a affordable package for somebody where they weren't spending thousands and thousands of dollars to get, like, high-quality training.

So, yeah, that's what it's been and who it's for, really any therapists who… I feel like therapists who want to get trained in DBT, yes, absolutely, therapists who have been trained in DBT and need community because I think that's the other thing. Like, whatever your population is, if you're seeing trauma clients, if you're, you know, working with folks who are coming to you with the darkest hardest parts of their life, in DBT we're seeing a lot of folks who are suicidal or have multi-symptoms, and like different crises happening at one moment or another, it can feel super scary, overwhelming as a therapist. And if you're not within community, it can feel isolating and it'll really play into the thoughts of like, "Maybe I don't know what I'm doing, I shouldn't be doing this."

And so, the Collective is kind of like a place for people to come together within that. The framework CBT, but it's really open to any therapists who wants to see things through that lens.

PATRICK CASALE: I like that a lot. And one thing I want to circle back, too, that you mentioned is the, like, when people are going through these trainings five-day EMDR, five-day AACT, DBT, whatever, a lot of people don't really learn well in those environments because it's so long, right? Like, a lot of my therapists just took EMDR training with our good friend Yunetta and they loved it.

But when you're up from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, and you're incorporating and integrating all of these skills and techniques, and your nervous system is dysregulated, and you're trying to ground, you might even be dissociated for some of the time. Like, it's really hard to absorb it without having a place to land and [CROSSTALK 00:05:05] things.

So, I love that that's the primary focal point. And I also love the community aspect because I think that's what we're seeing memberships and communities evolve into. I had Maureen Werbach on here the other day, who has a great membership, Group Practice Exchange, one of the best that I've come across and she's been doing it forever. But one thing that comes out of it unexpectedly is the community piece, the place where people know, like, I can pop into this platform, I can connect with other people who are doing similar things, like-minded people, people who will get it, where I don't have to re-explain what I'm experiencing or struggling with or need support with. But I also have, like, routine, structure, consistency, a place to see other people's faces. Like, how often in private practice are we siloed, and head down, seeing clients, end of the day comes and you haven't talked to anybody?

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, and I mean, for me, as a group practice owner, you know, training other folks, doing supervision, it was a super sad time for me, like, the first couple years and doing group practice ownership and my practice specializes in DBT. So, everyone who comes in, this is what we're training and this is what we're doing. And I had so many people, like, within the first year, not so many, but like more than I wanted feel like failure to launch. Like, "Oh, I learned this, but like, I don't think I'm good at this. And I don't even know if I should be a therapist."

And I was like, "Wait a minute." But when you look at these models of these, like, five-day trainings, you know, whether it's in with their intention or not, it does kind of set you up to think, "Oh, well, I took this training so now I should be good. And if I'm not good, or I don't feel good in the work that I'm doing, or things don't go according to plan, then it must be me."

And I'm like, no, this is actually like learning a whole other language. And it's going to take a lot of time. And it's going to take a lot of overlearning for it to feel not just fluid, for you to get the results that you want with your clients, for you to feel more competent as a therapist, and also, for you to be willing, like, have the confidence to be able to do it in a way that fits good for you. So, whether you're doing DBT, whether you're doing EMDR, however it looks, can you learn it to like a place of mastery, where you can say like, "Okay, I know what to do. And this is how I do it." Like, that part seems missing in all of these.

And it's just like, I feel like a lot of our complaints about grad school are, "Oh, I learned, you know, very generalized stuff. I didn't learn how to, you know, run my business, I didn't learn how to help with suicidal client." And it's like, okay, now I look back at that. And I'm like, "

Well, there's only so much time there was. You know, grad school is very broad strokes. And I think we have to look at these different modalities that we, like, tend to, you know, we get attracted to, and we sign up for them as those first five-day courses, those are very foundational. Like, those are just the blocks to getting started. And how do we continue to evolve like Shaelene who does DBT, who also does, you know, trauma work, or pulls into these other modalities while knowing and feeling really confident about the work that I'm doing? That's tricky. And I see it play into a lot of people's confidence as a clinician.

And that part, like, was sad to me and kind of pissed me off. And I was like, "No, it's not you like, we got to come back." So, yeah, I agree.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I like that perspective. And I think that's true. And I think those five-day trainings are just introductions, right? Like, is this something I even think I want to start exploring and using with clients? Like, it's not an end all be all take this five-day training, all of a sudden you're a master at it.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:09:40] right away. And I think some people do interpret it that way. Maybe it's because our field and our relationship with money, so if we're like, "We spent $1,500 now, like I should be an expert."

SHAELENE KITE: A master. Like, that's a lot of money, especially, when you're first getting started. Yeah, yeah, there is a way in which I think we're kind of shaped to believe this is it, you should be good.

And I don't know, I mean, I'm learning more about other modalities as I, you know, get trained and things. But I think that there is a bit of narcissism in, like, the people who created the thing. And so, like, I've seen it in DBT. I've seen it in ART. I've seen it in IFS, in EMDR, where it's like, this is the way, and if you don't do it this way then you might as well throw it in the trash. And by the way, if your clients are getting better, it's probably because you made a mistake.

And we even see it like in therapist's groups, when a therapist asks a question, and they're like, "What would you do if your client…" And then, people like freaking trash them? Like, what are you doing? You know, ethically, I think you need to consult. And it's like, nobody's helping this person. We're all shaming them.

And I've been looking at, like, what are all of the ways that kind of, like, funnel to someone into this mindset of like, it must be me, I'm not good at this, instead of trying to take a different approach to like, therapists, we're doing really hard work that a lot of people would not be able to do. And we need to, like, turn that stuff down because it's already hard enough, you know?

PATRICK CASALE: For sure. I agree 100%. And I think it's a great reframe and perspective to say I want to help people have a better grasp, and understanding, and feel more confident instead of kind of shaming them for not getting it "right".

And you're right, like all of these big training entities, EMDR, IFS, ACT, ART, DBT, it can feel like MLM-ish. Like, a little bit of marketing style funneling down into this pyramid scheme. You go through this training, and then, you have to do these consultations. You pay this amount, do these many hours, then you might be able to become a trainer, or a consultant, or whatever.

And it's like, "Damn, that is really not that accessible for a lot of human beings."

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, yeah. I think about accessibility a lot when making the collective. I mean, I try to imagine how much money I've invested in DBT trainings and it's up there. I mean, it's like in the thousands and thousands.

And again, like, I just think about like, Shaelene once you first got out of grad school, was working community mental health, and I had all these clients with like, oh, you know, you're depressed and you know, you want to die, I get it because your life sounds really awful and painful right now. Your partner's leaving you, you're going to get fired and you don't know how you're going to pay for, you know, your next meal. And I'm sitting there like, "What the hell? Like, how in the world do I help this person?"

And on the one hand, again, like I think grad school does the best that they can, but then, there's like this huge missing piece of like, when we don't have structure or something to hold on to, and we're just launched out there into, like a general population of you don't really know who you're going to get on your caseload, there needs to be something to hold on to and hang on to. But when it's 1000s of dollars, and you're getting out of grad school, you don't really have the money to be able to do that.

So, accessibility was like a big thing in creating this, instead of paying as much money as I've spent on, on that, you can get way more of that for a monthly membership cost, as opposed to having… Like, I was doing supervision today, my intern was talking about wanting to I think attend, like, and I think is EMDR training. She's like, "Hopefully, I can save up enough money one day or like, maybe get a little loan to be able to do it."

And I think at now, at this time now, so many years far from that, and having a successful business, like a lot of people would be like, "You know, it's only 1500 bucks." But when you're first getting started that really is a lot of money. And if you're a good practice owner, and you want to invest in the training of your staff, you're spending a ton of money. I know you're making that face because you just did it.

PATRICK CASALE: Thanks, Yunetta. Love you.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, she's the best. But like, that's the thing, right? Like, having these points where it just makes it really hard to access not just that first therapy, but what about that first level of training, but what about everything after that? So, I wanted to create a place where people could get all of that for, like, pennies compared to what they would pay, you know, out in the everyday world.

And you're right, like when you learn all of that stuff it makes me think about, like, you're sitting in this five-day training, whether it's online, or in a room somewhere that's not like in it really doing the work with your clients. And so, you get all of this knowledge, it's kind of like trying to teach somebody how to swim just verbally. Like, okay, you're going to get in the water, and then, you're just all of a sudden… you're going to flow. You just got to, like, let go. And it's like, what? That makes no sense. And that's kind of how it is.

So, you know, at least for me, and the membership, I think, like, okay, well, people can come back and they can re-watch it up, they can watch it in chunks, they can make it work in their schedule. They don't have to just sit there and dedicate a full week to it, and then, go in their sessions and be like, "Wait, I thought this was going to go way smoother, and turns out, it's not that easy to flow even if you're just trying and following all of the directions virtually." It doesn't really work like that.

PATRICK CASALE: It's actually a good analogy because that's really true. I know when I did like a three-day brain spotting training, I wasn't that interested in it if I'm being honest. But like, what made it more complicated was the fact that it was three days, virtual, 200 people. And they didn't do a great job of moding. So, there were probably five or six people who just asked question after question after question. I just ended up turning off my screen and like laying here on my chair for three days, just like, "Can't wait to get these CEUs." But there was never a time where I was going to be able to take that information, absorb it, implement it confidently.

So, I like the idea of, like, making the community more accessible, a safer place where people can try to practice skills, or at least process these things in a way where they are not going to feel judged, shamed, or rejected. And then, have it at the touch of your fingertips.

And that's what I think good memberships do. Like, they are worth the investment. Jennie Schottmiller of Simple Profit or is it Simple Profit for Mental Health Professionals?

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, she's probably got one of the best memberships available because of how much quality information she has put into it and included into it. And I think that's what these good memberships do. It's like, how can I put a bunch of this information out there without feeling like if I put it all out there, nobody's going to hire me for like consultation, or training, or speaking. It's like, yes, giving away most of our information that we ourselves have learned is actually a wonderful strategy to build a know, like, and trust, to build that reputability within that community, and to support a lot of people at the same time. So, I think it's a win-win all around.

SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, there's also just so many hours in the day. Like, I can do consultations with people, but I can't do them all the time. So, I thought, okay, well, if I do a membership, I can show up once a month, and whoever in the membership wants to come to that. And they don't have to pay $300 for that spot. It's a part of their membership cost. So, the most that they would pay is like $99 a month. And so, again, like the accessibility piece, having that included with the training.

I think something else that like when I think of Maureen's membership that I really appreciate, is like the evolution of things. Like, it's not just, here's how to open a group practice and that's it. It's like, okay, but now this whole, like the last thing she was talking about that really was helpful for me was this concept of intercompany eliminations where big insurance companies are buying group practices. And I was like, this is super helpful. She's talking about the evolution of having a group practice and how you're going to manage that stuff in the future.

And I think that's another thing that, like, you might see, you know, trainings kind of pop up like here and there. But for me in learning, you know, over the past couple of years more about, you know, neurodivergent, about anti-racism, then I'm looking back at my modality and being like, "Well, how am I applying this here?"

And so, for me, that's really important to make sure that, like, these modalities are evolving, and that we're including tools for… we just had a training in the membership, like, I think it was last week on are we adapting DBT for autistic folks? Like, that's really important, that's a really big deal. What kind of changes are we making to make sure that DBT is anti-racist and anti-oppressive? Like, and if we're not looking at those things, then we're kind of just, like, perpetuating problems that, you know, on the one hand, I think, we're trying to fight as mental health professionals. But on the other hand, it's easy to get sucked in, and just kind of think like, "Well, this is the way that the therapy goes. And so, this is how I'm going to do it." So, that's something I also think that's needed in these different memberships.

PATRICK CASALE: Love that. Yeah, I think the evolution is crucial. Even as I start thinking about developing my own membership, about how I wouldn't want it to be a set-it-and-forget-it situation. Like, you have to evolve not only as the person hosting it, the creator, but also the community has to evolve over time, too. And that's just natural.

So, sounds like you've created something really fucking cool. I'm super proud of you. Do me a favor so that people can get a good understanding of what they get, how to get it. Share that with everyone who's listening?

SHAELENE KITE: Definitely. So, again, it's for therapists of, you know, it doesn't matter. Students have asked me, "Can I sign up for this?" Absolutely, if you are a mental therapist, or you're going to be a mental health therapist or provider in some way, we would love to have you. So, it's all levels DBT training. It's that initial five-day training that would normally cost you about $1,300. It's also advanced training that would have also cost you about $1,500. And then, it's a bunch of smaller trainings to take those harder concepts like phone coaching, teams, therapist mindfulness, adaptations. And it's zooming in on those concepts to just provide a lot of support.

So, there's a growing training library that just keeps growing and growing because we have live trainings and they're exclusive to the membership.

So, right now, I don't hold other DBT trainings outside of it. I only do it for my membership. There're CEs with that, monthly hours with me, and a private community that's not on Facebook, that people like because Facebook is getting really overwhelming and there's too many freaking groups on Facebook.

So, you can ask questions and stuff like that. And yeah, so far, it's a small community, but it's been going really, really well. And I would love to welcome anybody in. I keep saying like fraction of the cost, the most that somebody would spend is 600 bucks. It's $99 a month. There's a six-month commitment. There's an equity discount for BIPOC and LGBT folks if you'd like to use that it brings it down to 79 students as well. That's all on the website.

And for any listeners to the show, you can get half off your first month with the code ATPP 50. And I sent that to you for the show notes.

There's also a free course in there. Maybe you have no idea if you would like DBT, but you can identify with feeling completely incompetent with clients who are like, "Yeah, I'm suicidal, and I'm homeless, and I'm moving to Iceland tomorrow because I'm going to leave my partner." Like, all those things at once. I have a free course that you can download just to help you navigate that and like cling on to some structure. And if you like that then that might be an indicator that you might like learning a little bit more about it. So, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Oh, you summed that up perfectly for me so I don't have to do any of the work.

SHAELENE KITE: Hurray.

PATRICK CASALE: If you need any information it is in the show notes for you to have access to. I highly recommend checking it out. Make sure to go to, what is rebelmente.com for your other stuff as well.

SHAELENE KITE: Yep, everything's at rebelmente.com. You'll see the tab there for the training membership, specifically. But all of my stuff is on rebelmente.com.

PATRICK CASALE: You know the first time you were on here you were talking about creating Rebelmente and launching it. So, full circle [CROSSTALK 00:24:08]-

SHAELENE KITE: You are right, yeah. Wow, holy shit, yeah. I think it was like a, I remember you asking me like, and I was like, "Well, it's not really done yet. I don't know if I want to sing it." And you were like, "No, you're going to." And so, here we are. Yeah, that was a while ago. Full circle kids. Keep going. It will happen at some point. Put it out there. Doubt yourself, do it anyway.

PATRICK CASALE: I don't even have to say my tagline. For everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, and share. We'll see you next week.