Episode 159: The Rise of AI-Powered Documentation for Mental Health Clinicians [featuring Erez Druk]

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. You're listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice podcast. I am joined today by Erez, a co-founder offreed.ai which is an artificial intelligence software company that helps clinicians do their documentation and helps them with their notes, which, you know, if you're listening and you're in private practice you can probably relate to feeling like notes are the bane of your existence, or take up too much time, or you are behind on them pretty consistently.

So, happy to have you here. You're a co-founder of this platform. You also worked at Facebook at one point in time. And you've been a founder of a couple of different startups in the tech world. So, thanks for coming on.

Please just feel free to tell the audience a little bit about what you do and why you do it because I think it's important. Or the why behind why is this a founder or a startup for you? And why does it feel important?

EREZ DRUK: Yeah, thank you for having me. So, why am I doing this? You know, there are so many stories, but here's a recent one.

So, this week, my wife, she's in residency family practice, family medicine. We met just before med school. So, she's a big influence on my life, but also, on this startup. And this week, she started a vacation, very rare in residency. On Monday, she has a week to enjoy her life a little bit.

And how does she start the vacation? You know, we all know the answer, charting for the entire day, catching up on notes from a month ago, a week ago, inbox. That's how she starts her vacation.

And as any other clinician, she really deserves some time off. And she doesn't just deserve it, she needs it. It's such a tough job. We all know about burnout. So, yeah, that's true. The reason I think we can help clinicians do better things with their time, whether it's going home earlier or being more present with the patient, whatever they want to do with their time. We're really not here to tell them what to do. Just let me try to help you do slightly better things with your time, not even being forced into the documentation. So, that's the one and only reason we're doing it.

PATRICK CASALE: Okay. And sounds like a pretty good reason. And I think that's probably one that is so relatable to so many people who are listening, where it's like, "Okay, I have this practice that I love, that I've created, or I'm working at a practice. And although I only work 20 to 24 hours a week seeing clients, and it feels like it should be less work than when I worked at my agency job or elsewhere, I am so bogged down with the administrative side of things, feeling like there's always something to catch up on."

And it then means that it takes away from personal time, right? Like, because we are a profession predominantly made up of people who don't practice what they preach about self-care, and stepping away, and taking care of our needs. And then, more importantly, it's like, I'm working so much more than I want to be because of the things that I don't enjoy doing, which I don't really know anybody who enjoys doing notes or doing documentation.

So, if you're out there listening, and you're one of those rare people where you're like, "I love this." Well, you good for you. But ultimately, I don't know a lot of people who are like really excited to go to work this week and do a bunch of notes or documentation.

So, tell us about what your platform does and how it does it. Because that's one question in my Facebook group that's constantly being asked, "Is there a HIPAA compliant way to do notes where I don't have to actually be doing them constantly throughout the week or the month?"

EREZ DRUK: Right. I want to answer that, and I do want to inject one more detailed story because it really reminded me one of the moments that I knew that this is not only working, but I think life-changing for some people is that when we just got started, I got a phone call. I was walking. We have a park next to our house. I was walking in the morning, just like before this conversation.

And I'm walking around. And I'm getting a phone call. Usually, I get a lot of spam. For some reason, I answered. And someone on the phone she's yelling like, "Erez, I have an issue with Freed." So, I'm running home trying to help her out. And after we fix it, which when you realize how mission-critical this can be for people, she was telling me her story. And the story she started private practice 10 years ago, been doing it, been super hard. Very recently, she made a decision, "I'm going to stop doing this [INDISCERNIBLE 00:05:43] bigger practice." You know how it goes.

And then, she was telling me, I swear that's what she said. She said, "I found out about Freed a month ago, and I changed my mind. I'm going to keep doing my private practice." So, you know, quite literally life-changing. Hopefully, for the best. That's the right thing.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

EREZ DRUK: But yeah, so just the way you describe really reminded me of how [INDISCERNIBLE 00:06:07]-

PATRICK CASALE: Let's pause there. That's such an important point that you just made because there are so many clinicians and mental health professionals who want to step away from their jobs, from helping people because of the administrative side of things.

So, the ability to free that up and to make sure that that no longer feels like a major burden or stressor for someone, and helps them stay in the field, which then has that ripple effect of like helping more and more clients and more people in the community. That's amazing. Okay, continue.

EREZ DRUK: Yes, no. Again, we can just talk about this point forever because we can go into the nitty gritty. So, you asked about, is there a HIPAA compliant… Wait, so certainly, and one, it's an update from very recently. So, we were HIPAA compliant all along, from the beginning, but now we also got third-party certification. So, if you're wondering if something like Freed and other competitors are HIPAA compliant, it's definitely possible.

We're advertising on Facebook, and we're seeing a lot of people commenting what AI would do [INDISCERNIBLE 00:07:19]… AI, you know, it's really just a bunch of software doing some math in there. There's nothing special, that data is not going anywhere, especially, we can show you exactly where it is. It's being erased after 30 days.

So, first now we have a certification even to show you. You don't have to trust me, you can trust the certification of a third party to be HIPPAA compliant. But I think that's an important point. I understand why people are worried about that's like so important. So, I'm not, you know, diminishing that.

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, the way I view it is that you are responsible to get your notes down, for that to be accurate. To be honest, we're not taking responsibility for that. But it doesn't mean that you have to type every letter there and click all the buttons in the EHR and spend three hours a day. Or, you know, that's a number that some people spend doing that. You can get some help. Just like a human scribe, you're still responsible.

So, really, the only difference between human scribe and what Freed does is now it's done with technology, which is quite literally 100 times cheaper, faster, instantaneous, learns your style. It doesn't quit on you after three months and you need to try another AI scribe. So, it's really as simple as that.

And I think what I'm saying recently is that the market is getting there, so now kind of it's getting to mass adoption, which is great. Again, I think we, to date, documented more than, I think we're getting close to maybe 3 million encounters. That's 3 million times that someone didn't have to, you know, go through the pain of another note. And I see it every day that each one of these causes pain. Yeah. So, not sure if I exactly answered your question.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah. No, you answered it. That's important to hear. And I think so many people who are unfamiliar with technology or are really afraid of AI in the mental health space, there's some reason to be afraid of it, depending on who is using it. And for what a lot of people would say, well, all these big box companies that I'm not going to mention on here because I don't want to get a cease and desist, again, are using AI to sell client data. And they're just purchasing, you know, private information, and just selling it into the world. But for something that's HIPAA compliant, it sounds like, obviously, that's not something that would happen behind the scenes with Freed.

EREZ DRUK: Right, exactly. And I do encourage people to be skeptical. That's why we got the certification. And I want to make people trust some random Erez guy. But yeah. And it's good to see that people are being very diligent. That's what, especially, early on, took us time to kind of build this confidence, and, you know, understand what proof points we need to show.

So, yeah, very important, but very doable. There's nothing different in AI processing. We're not in the EHR or, you know, any other tool.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally. So, talk to us about EHR stuff and integration. Let's say someone's out there and are using TherapyNotes, SimplePractice, whatever the EHR system is, they decide I want to use Freed to help me with my documentation. So, what does that process look like, in terms of, like, how quickly are we getting these notes done and then upload it into a client chart on a typical session or basis?

EREZ DRUK: Yeah. So, the kind of thesis behind Freed was that's really useful technology for clinicians. We really focus on the clinicians, therapists, doctors. And that was even before the idea was to do charting. When we decided to focus on charting first, it was okay what's the solution? The solution has to be affordable, very easy. No training. Nobody wants to learn another EHR. And it needs to produce high-quality output so it's useful.

So, to make all of that happen, our initial decision was no EHR integration. That's the way to keep it simple, affordable. When you go to the integration, that's when things get messy. And Freed it works this way, today, in a second, I'll talk about the future. So, today, you get a note within a minute or so, once the encounter is done. It's very comprehensive. Over time, Freed loads your style, so over time to be the almost as good as the note that you would write yourself, if had the time. And then what people do? They open the note next to the EHR and they depend on each other. You know, copy the entire thing straight, or sections, or kind of take quotes from different places. So, there's still some work of charting work, but you're starting from 90% not 0%.

PATRICK CASALE: Right.

EREZ DRUK: That's how it works today. I'm aware that, for me, until we don't make it completely seamless that you really have to look at the note to proof it, we're not done. So, now, we are, and actually this week we're launching the first beta of an integration with an EHR. And we did find an approach that seems promising, which would be very seamless and walk across large number of EHRs, and wouldn't force us to charge five times more. It will be affordable as well. So, that's coming soon.

I think that we can talk about which EHR, but that's our approach now within the coming weeks and months, that kind of solving that part of the equation.

I would say one more thing about the EHR integration because it also allows us to, of course, make it more seamless, but also, two other things. Now, we can read information so I can make the notes know the history of the patient, obviously, would make the note better. And two, it would allow us to take other actions in the EHR later on, like orders, inbox management, pre-charting, all of these are things that we're, of course, want to help with as well because they are as burdensome as charting itself.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure. Yeah, I think everyone's probably interested in knowing what the EHR is, but, I mean, that's a, if you feel comfortable, if not, that's okay.

EREZ DRUK: Yeah, but no, it's no secret. We're kind of still prioritizing. The first one we're testing now is Athena, and then [INDISCERNIBLE 00:13:23]. I know that in therapy there's a different set and we're looking at them as well. And we're going to make it generic so it works across many EHRs.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

EREZ DRUK: So, that's coming soon.

PATRICK CASALE: And even, you know, when you say, like, this is going to do 90% of the work, if all I have to do is copy and paste into my medical record system, that's remarkable because it's taking away that time where you literally… I know so many therapists, like, that don't even have time to go to the bathroom between sessions, who don't even have time to eat lunch or get a drink of water because they're so bogged down by the administrative side of their practice.

So, the ability to take 90% of that away from them and say, like, you don't have to worry about this, all you have to do is copy and paste and save it into your EHR. That's a major relief for people who are listening because that is a portion of their job where it's just like, this takes the enjoyment out of the profession.

EREZ DRUK: And something we hear a lot is that even if you have to do this work, one thing that Freed allows, it leads you into the encounter, so it allows you, during the encounter to just get away from the keyboard, be much more present. And interestingly, we get feedback from our customers, clinicians that our patients give them feedback, or clients that it's better. So, you know, I truly think everybody wins with this technology. And, yeah, just super excited.

You know, I have so many stories, I have to share them. Just two weeks ago we had, I always look at our kind of Facebook comments and stuff, what people are saying. They say good things, you know, sometimes not. But this one guy, on Friday evening he posted a selfie of himself in the hot tub, and he wrote something like, "You know, I bought this hot tub two years ago. I never use it. I don't get on home early enough. And this week I used it. I got home early enough every day to just use my hot tub because it's so nice."

You know, I shared it with my team and everybody were like, "Oh my God, we're doing something that, yes, we made a real impact on someone's well-being." It's super fulfilling. You can see my face, I couldn't be more excited about helping clinicians with this.

PATRICK CASALE: That's awesome. I mean, I love hearing that because, you know, not only do I help clinicians all over the world with their practices, I own a group practice where we have 20 clinicians, and some of our folks really struggle with the documentation side. So, I'm almost thinking, I'm like, when I get off this podcast I need to get onto Freed and start hooking our clinicians off of this because, you know, if I can make their lives easier, their jobs are more enjoyable, they're less stressed out. It's just a benefit of saying, like, how most clinicians got into this job or profession to help people. It doesn't feel like you're helping them when you're bogged down by the things you don't enjoy doing. So, that's a major plus.

Also, for our clinicians who are mostly neurodivergent, ADHD, autistic, etc., who struggle with executive functioning at times, this could be a game changer, where they really don't have to overexert their brains or overstimulate their brains and lose track of the things that they're doing throughout the day. So, that's just sounds like a really wonderful resource, in general.

Are there things with Freed that I'm not thinking about that are frequently asked questions that come up from time to time, anything that comes to mind for you?

EREZ DRUK: Other questions, yeah, I think there's a lot… Let me see, yeah, I think a big one that we're hearing these days is, I think, so clinicians definitely across specialties, but also just as having different ways of practicing want a lot of different levels of personalization, customization, like this language. Like, something we get from therapists all the time, and I'm kind of taking the team to fix it is that it usually uses the language patient, and in therapy, folks want to use client. That's the more appropriate term, as far as I understand.

So, something we hear a lot is how does Freed become your own? And I think what we're trying to make it so. Yeah, but that just comes a lot when you use an AI, how do I make it my own? And we see people finding different tricks like giving it context in the beginning of the visit. Or today, we have a way that if you added the note, and you can kind of click a button, this is my style. It kind of learns it, but it's not perfect yet. That's something we hear a lot.

Obviously, something we hear a lot as well is that there's a lot of competition out there. So, what's the difference? You know, there are more and more players coming up. We can dive into that. There are differences, there are similarities. But yeah, I think overall, people want to…

So, if we kind of take a step back, I truly believe, after saying my wife and I know that my wife and people are going to medicine job because they want to, you know, that's like truly feels to me like it's their calling. It's not because it's a great career and it's not easy. And, yeah, I really feel like people are looking for any help in kind of going back to basics and let me practice more and be an administrator less. So, it's not only AI strive, it's how do I work with my EHR better? How do I improve my process? I think there are many things you can do aside of using AI for everything.

So, these are some topics that come up. Okay, don't know if it's [CROSSTALK 00:20:31]-

PATRICK CASALE: Sure. Tell me this, people are probably listening right now, and if they haven't gone to your website yet, they're like, okay, I have a telehealth practice or I see people in person, whichever, doesn't matter. So, how does the software work? Are we essentially starting the software with each session, and it's recording, and then transcribing? Is that kind of how it goes? Or what does that look like for in-person sessions versus telehealth remote sessions?

EREZ DRUK: Yes, right. So, our philosophy is you don't need to do anything differently, and you don't learn anything. So, Freed, it's actually the simplest app in the world. It's a button. It's a button that you click Start, and then, it becomes a Stop button, and you click Stop. Of course, with a lot of technology in the background.

But yeah, the idea is, if I come to see you, I come in. You ask me, "Hey, do you mind if I use this thing?" HIPAA compliant, you can talk about the language there. And once you get my… as a patient or client the permission, you click Start. You can forget about it. You practice the way, you know, kind of in more the way we used to, let's say. And then, you press End. That's all you need to do, is to clicks of a button and informing your patient or client. And then, you get the note.

Today, it's in a sub structure, but it's very flexible, so it captures everything you probably want. And it's very simple. You can copy paste. And that's the idea. The idea is really to just allow Freed to listen to the encounter like a human scribe and document for you. That's it. You put it in the EHR and you're done.

We can talk about the advanced things like how do we customize it? How do we make it more your own? But that's also very, very simple.

And I should add one more thing. I think that in this philosophy of it requires nothing of you to learn or no effort, there's also a free trial. So, anybody can come into our website, as you mentioned, freed.ai. Try it out. You like it, great. You don't like it, great as well. Just give us feedback so we can make you like it in the future.

And yeah, it's truly very, very simple. It's the number one guideline when I just started coming up with it. You know, my wife number one thing was, Gabby, she said, "Keep it simple. Nobody wants training. Just keep it simple. It can be simple."

PATRICK CASALE: Right. Yeah, I think keeping it simple is the best way because nobody wants one more thing they have to learn, or one more thing they have to figure out, or train their administrative staff on, or any of that [CROSSTALK 00:22:59]-

EREZ DRUK: [CROSSTALK 00:22:59].

PATRICK CASALE: …like set it and forget it.

EREZ DRUK: I live in Santa Rosa, California. I'm very connected to the kind of health community here. I just have a lot of friends. And while the clinics transition to Epic, three years process, everybody hates it. We all understand why, but everybody hates it, you know, just how it works. They literally went bankrupt that they had to fire… Like, people had to kind of, you know, keep the clinic alive. So, nobody wants that experience.

In some way, we're trying to be the antithesis of EHRs as complex they are. We're going to be simple as demanding of your time and clicks, we want to be the opposite. And again, I don't blame them. If I built an EHR four years ago, it would have been the same. It's very impressive and good for healthcare, but now there's an opportunity to take that value and remove all the burden and chores that it creates for clinicians. Not only clinicians but everybody around healthcare working for the EHR that's our master.

PATRICK CASALE: Right. Yeah, that's so true. I like this vision a lot. And it also sounds like, and I know this will probably be a question that comes up from people who are listening like customer service, tech support, it sounds like it's pretty available, considering you're rushing home to answer and respond to things, when things are happening.

EREZ DRUK: Yeah, I would say a few things. Okay, I'd start with the [INDISCERNIBLE 00:24:26] over the last year, like accumulated some good stories. So, when we just got started and Freed just started to pick up, I was spending hours a day doing support. And I want to do that, but I also need to do other things in order to make the business better.

And this guy reaches out to me on LinkedIn. This guy's name is Adozi. Never heard about him. And he sent me a message in Hebrew saying, "Both of my parent's using Freed. It's the best thing ever. Tell me what to do? Marketing? I'm here for you. Let's talk."

And at the bottom, he wrote, "I hope you can understand this, they use ChatGPT to translate from English to Hebrew." So, you know, he was being witty. So, I'm like, "Okay, I'm curious about this guy. Let's get on a call." So, apparently, he's a med student. Both parents are clinicians. And so, he heard about Freed from them. And I told him that, yeah, I have now hundreds of people using this product every day, and I need help with support.

And the guy the same day, not the next day, same day, just comes in, starting to help out. Of course, hired him immediately. And the amazing thing he's done is used an AI to automate our support. So, today, it seemed, now we have another employee helping but supporting thousands of clinicians with very quick and helpful support that he built on top of AI, so that this AI. And very smart. He knows everything about Freed. So, very cool. Again, show the power of AI, not just to solve this problem, but to build a more effective, better support, for example.

But kind of beyond that story. Yeah, pretty, our number one value, and we don't have too many values is to be clinician-focused. That's what's important for me. And honestly, one of my biggest concerns would be, as we grow the team how do we remain, you know, intensification-focused. And a big part of it is support. If you look at our testimonials, it's almost always, "What a great product. Game-changing. I love it. The support is so great."

You know, like, I asked for some support and I got it immediately. It's really hard. It's pretty hard. It's really hard with this kind of larger numbers to maintain that level. So, we're kind of investing a lot in that too. And yeah, it's important. I think that clinicians deserve to get an answer, you know, immediately, especially, with a tool that they get used to and depend on.

PATRICK CASALE: Totally.

EREZ DRUK: Yeah. So, bottom line, we're doing our best to be very, very responsive. And then, quickly.

PATRICK CASALE: Got it. I love that. Love hearing that, too. A question that's on my mind, is there difference? I obviously could answer this by looking through the website, but since I have you here, do we have differences in price points for solo clinicians and practitioners versus groups and organizations.

EREZ DRUK: Yeah, so we are tinkering with the pricing. Again, really, the philosophy is to be affordable while we want to build a good business so we can serve clinicians for many, many years to come.

So, as an example, we started at 199. We understood that, hey, this is pretty high, and we do have margins to pay. We weren't sure about the margins yet, so we cut it in half to 99. But kind of to answer the question. So, today, Freed for an individual seat is $99 a month. We do, for resident students, 50% off. Also, in other cases, we provide discounts, usually, if people ask for a good reason. And then, for groups, we do have discounts. It depends on the size and just what we can do practically.

PATRICK CASALE: Sure.

EREZ DRUK: It could be between 10%, 25%, sometimes more, depending on the size and maybe there's part time workers. But also, we try to be as flexible as we can with what works for you. Do you need a month to pilot this first? Go ahead, let's just do it.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

EREZ DRUK: Yeah. So, that's the pricing. We also have an annual plan that is 10% off. And we're also thinking of reducing this price. By the way, something I should say if people are thinking of waiting for the price to reduct, every time we reduce the price we also do it for existing customers, of course.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that.

EREZ DRUK: Yeah, but that's the pricing today. Very simple 99 a month. And I do aim, as AI becomes more commoditized and cheaper to also reduce the price further.

PATRICK CASALE: Wow. Well, you know, there's this mentality where it's like, "This sounds too good to be true." So, what I recommend everyone doing who's listening, sign up for the free trial. Like, sign it up. Sign up and check it out. I'm going to sign my clinicians up as soon as I get off this call for our group practice because I think it'll just make their lives easier.

So, one I want to just thank you for coming on sharing this information. I know I've rescheduled on you like 10 times, and I'm really glad that we actually made this happen because this is one of those conversations that feels really valuable, not just for myself, but for the people who listen to this podcast.

Do you mind sharing a little bit about where people can find you guys, and I think you mentioned a code, potentially, for listeners to this episode?

EREZ DRUK: Yes. So, first, would love anybody to try us out, of course, for free. The website is freed.ai. There's a free trial. And if you decide to subscribe, for your listeners, we have a code for $50 off the first month. So, it's PRIVATE, so P-R-I-V-A-T-E 50, PRIVATE50. And yeah, try it out. And literally, my only request is that give us feedback, we read all of it. We really prioritize what we do based on it. And I know it's not perfect yet for anyone, but really, I want us to learn how to become the best at this and serve, you know, every clinician that we can. Yeah, freed.ai.

PATRICK CASALE: Perfect. All of that information will be in the show notes including the code PRIVATE50, so that you can get that half off discount if you do decide to continue on for that first month.

So, thank you so much for coming on, and making the time, and sharing this, and sharing your creation in the world. Sounds like it's life-changing for our profession and the medical profession as well. And I hope to collaborate these future opportunities as we go forward, too.

EREZ DRUK: Thank you. Thank you as well. And thank you for what you're doing, and making some time for me. I appreciate it.

PATRICK CASALE: Not a problem. And to everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. Like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week.