Episode 169: Before You Lose a Tooth, Open Your Practice [featuring Denielle Rigoglioso-Lambert]

Show Notes

In this episode, I speak with Denielle Rigoglioso-Lambert, a licensed professional counselor, certified substance abuse counselor, private practice owner, business strategist, and respected industry leader, about her inspiring journey and the evolution of careers in private practice, the multifaceted ways therapists can expand their impact, and the financial mindset shifts necessary for sustainable growth.

Here are 3 key takeaways:

1. Risk-taking is essential for growth: Stepping out of comfort zones is necessary for both personal and professional development.
2. Multiple Revenue Streams: Diversify income by leveraging your existing skill sets in various avenues like coaching, speaking, and creating retreats.
3. Self-Care Leads to Better Care: Taking care of yourself enables you to be a more effective therapist, benefiting both you and your clients.

Note from Denielle:

I'm Denielle Rigoglioso-Lambert, your dedicated coach and mentor in the world of private practice. I'm not just a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC), Certified Substance Abuse Counselor (CSAC), and Certified Advanced Alcohol and Drug Counselor (CAADC). I'm also a successful private practice owner, a seasoned business strategist for clinicians, and a respected industry leader.

My mission? To guide therapists like you toward greater freedom, increased income, and the elimination of burnout by helping you create your dream private practice. One that's tailored precisely to your unique needs, desires, and ambitions. Because I firmly believe that every healer deserves to thrive.

With a wealth of experience spanning community mental health, brick-and-mortar private practice offices, contract telehealth positions, and my own highly successful solo private practice (which has since grown into a thriving group practice), I've seen it all.

I know firsthand the relentless burnout that can creep in when working in community mental health and trying to juggle multiple jobs for a reasonable income. It left me exhausted, and my family was feeling the strain. That's when I took a bold step and launched my own virtual solo private practice.

• Grab my free 5-step guide to starting your private practice.
• Facebook: facebook.com/groups/therapyceo 
• Instagram: instagram.com/saltwatercoachingconsulting

🎙️Listen to more episodes of the All Things Private Practice Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
✈️ Check out available Retreats
🗨️ Join the free Empowered Escape FB Community
🗨️ Join the free All Things Private Practice FB Community

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: The Receptionist for iPad & Alma!

✨ The Receptionist for iPad:

I want to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.

From new patients faced with an empty lobby and no idea where to find their therapist to clinicians with a session running over time and the doorbell ringing, some of the most anxiety-ridden moments of a therapy appointment happen before a session even starts. The Receptionist for iPad, helps you tackle some of that pre-appointment apprehension and anxiety.

The Receptionist for iPad is an easy-to-use digital client check-in system that helps your visitors check in securely to their appointments and notify their practitioners of their arrival via SMS, email, or your preferred channel.

No more confusion and less lobby checking or having clients sign in on paper logbooks. It can even help you upgrade and update your demographic information for your clients as well and even validate parking.

Start a 14-day free trial of the Receptionist for iPad by going to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice. Make sure to start your trial with that link and you'll also get your first month free if you decide to sign up.

✨Alma

I want to thank Alma for sponsoring this episode.

Building and managing the practice you want can be challenging. That’s why Alma offers tools and resources to help you build not just any practice, but your private practice. They’ll help you navigate insurance, access referrals who are the right fit for you, and efficiently manage administrative tasks — so you can spend less time on the details, and more time delivering great care. You support your clients. Alma supports you.

Visit helloalma.com/ATPP to learn more.

Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to All Things Private Practice podcast, joined today by Denielle Rigoglioso. I said the last name correctly, I think. A dedicated coach and mentor in the world of private practice, licensed professional counselor, certified substance abuse counselor, certified advanced alcohol and drug counselor, private practice owner, seasoned business strategist for clinicians and a respected industry leader.

And today, we're going to kind of talk about some of your journey as, like, going into private practice, starting a coaching program, speaking engagements, and where the evolution of this career path can take you, as well as some money stuff, which is always quite polarizing for mental health people.

You mentioned you are very nervous to be on here, and I always like to just name that in the beginning because it's like, let's just get all the nerves out now. And I know for me, when I'm doing speaking engagements and my heart is beating out of my chest, and I name it, and then, kind of use some self-deprecating humor, typically, I'm like, "Okay, now I feel fine."

So, anything you want to share with the audience that I missed in your bio or just about who you are?

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: No, I'm just super excited to be here. You kind of captured everything just beautifully. I'm a private practice owner. I own a group private practice. And I'm a business coach, so I own two businesses. So, yeah, I'm just excited to be here. And nervous? Yeah-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:02:23]. So, when did you get your masters? When did you graduate?

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: 2015.

PATRICK CASALE: Okay, yeah, me too. So, back in 2015 Denielle graduates. What's your, like, vision for this career? Do you ever think this is where you end up?

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: I never thought I would end up here. It's actually pretty mind-blowing. And I really do sit in a gratitude space almost every day going, "Whoa, holy crap. I cannot believe that I'm here and this is the life of a therapist."

And that's really kind of still what propels me. Even though it's propelling me, but I'm also using it to propel others because the narrative that we're always fed, and me in 2015, so I'll go back a little bit if you want. I'll tell you a story.

So, I graduated in 2003. I knew I wanted to be a therapist. I went to Virginia Tech. Didn't get into their counseling program, ended up getting out of college, ended up getting married, not a good, healthy relationship, did not end well. Part of what happened there also propelled me into my niche in my private practice, that's a whole nother story for a whole nother time. But I ended up a single parent, 100% single parent that time.

And so, I started grad school, chose a graduate program that I have no idea whether it was like a credit or not a credit. Like, all of these things, I started it. I ended up dropping out after about four weeks because I was commuting. I was working full-time commuting. I didn't have a kid at this time, so I'm going back a little bit more. So, I stopped.

And then, once I did have my daughter I realized that, you know, I needed to go back to school. I needed to get my masters. And so, you know, going through a really difficult divorce, becoming a 100% single parent, I started my grad program, was like crazy, and working full time. I had so many, like, really great supports in my life at that time. And so, you know, graduating in 2015 I was, like, tired.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:04:44] makes me tired. So, I [CROSSTALK 00:04:46]-

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: So-

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: I call it like trauma response, call it resilience, call it ADHD, call it all three, but it sounds like you were determined to really see that through the second time around.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Absolutely. I've always been super driven, you know? And so, I'm a hard worker, and I'm very passionate about what I do. And so, of course, at that time, I thought, "Yeah, I definitely want a private practice one day in the future." Right? And I just thought that it was just so out of reach. Like, I had to save 50, 100k. And, like, at that point in time if you're paying for daycare, you're working full time, you are a resident, so you're earning hours. So, yes, a second job. Yeah, exactly, sucks. You know, and you're not making very much. And so, it's like, "Well, how the hell am I going to build a private practice? Man, I'm going to be, like, really old by the time I save, you know, 50k plus to do that."

And so, that mindset going in and this ties into money mindset, right, too. It's like just as clinicians we're fed this narrative for so long. We work for free in our practicum, then we work for practically free in our residency or internships and all of that. And then, even as licensed clinicians, we're still not making enough, or you have to work so many hours to make ends meet, and to save, and to pay off your loans, and to do all of the things that, you know, and God forbid you have a kid in competitive sports that I will do you in right there.

PATRICK CASALE: [INDISCERNIBLE 00:06:29]. You know, I can relate to most of that, minus the kid piece. And I think you're absolutely right. Like, yes, I think this profession, there's this narrative of, you don't get into this field to make money. That's a that's a constant, right? I think everybody can relate to that one.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: I think you're even fed that line throughout grad school, like, and it's almost encouraged that you don't make money. And there's almost like shame, right? Of like, if you do want to go into business ownership, you're just greedy. Or you're, like, really taking advantage of people, or it's really feeding into capitalism, which to some degree it is, but we live in a fucking capitalist society, so that's our reality. And it's almost like you are supposed to give yourself away, right? Like, that's the field, that's what we anchor into. And then, people feel really guilty for wanting something different.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yep, yeah. And so, that just continues to compel us into this space where we get really burned out. And then, even if we try to leverage ourselves in a private practice, we end up, you know, seeing everybody and thinking we have to take everything. And then, we're joining this group, or that group, or were signing on with this platform that pays you $30 an hour. Like, McDonald's managers make $30 an hour. Come on now, we have thousands of hours underneath of us, and master's degrees, and some of us PhDs, right? PsyDs. Like, that's mind-blowing.

PATRICK CASALE: Yep, absolutely.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah. So, yeah. So, I knew it was a dream. I just didn't think it was possible, you know? And, you know, I worked really hard. I did a lot of practice building for other people, you know, moving up into supervisor positions. I ended up getting an opportunity where I could build a community-based mental health practice from the ground up. And then, that was in Virginia Beach. And then, I ended up building a second site for that company, you know, outpatient, ABA, crisis services, intensive in-home, mental skill building, all of these different variety of services, you know?

And here I am building a multi-million-dollar practice for someone else, and the light bulb just clicked that I could do this myself, you know? But it was like, "How do I do that?" Because here's what's also attached. And not everybody's in like a toxic environment, right? Some people love where they work. It's just it's not flexible, or there's not enough freedom, or it really isn't enough pay, but they love their family, and their co-workers.

And I loved my team, loved them, still do, still love them. But it really became a very toxic work environment, and I was super burned out.

Like, I tell everybody, like I was mentally falling apart, but I was also physically falling apart. I cracked a tooth from stress. Like, that's insane. That was my wake-up call. Like, you can't keep doing this something has to change.

And so, I had built my private practice in the background while I was doing all of that, running those two sites. And then, I finally said, "That's it. I can't do this anymore." I said to my husband. He was like… Because I kept saying, "Oh, six more months. Oh, one more year." You know?

And then, finally I got to a point where I was like, "I have to do it." He's like, "What?" And I'm like, "I have to put in my resignation." He's like, "Now?" And I'm like, "Yeah, right now. Like, right now."

PATRICK CASALE: What was going through your mind when you're thinking resignation from "security, and consistency, and stability?"

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Here's the reality, there's risk in everything that we do. There was risk in staying there. And if I had stayed there, I don't know what would have happened. I mean, it was wearing on me. It was wearing on my family.

I say this all the time, but like, I remember talking to my boss saying, "You know, I have 10 minutes to take my daughter from home to cheerleading practice." I'm like, "That's like the only time I get." You know, because I'm always on call, and whatever. And I'm, like, "You guys could just not call me during that time." I'm high anxiety. So, like, I want to answer the phone. So, if my boss calls, I want to answer the phone. I do not like any discord.

So, I'm like, "That's the only time I get." That should have been a huge wake up call for me, of like, right then and there when I said that, that's not okay. I need to have time, and freedom, and flexibility.

And so, you know, I moved into private practice from burnout. And so, like, what I try to teach other clinicians is that you don't have to do that. You don't have to wait till you get to that space. You can be happy where you're at, but still take care of you by opening your private practice and moving fully into that. So, do it before you lose a tooth.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah. That's a good line for this episode, for sure. I think a lot of people who are listening probably resonate with that. And I know myself, you know, talking about my own journey, similar in a lot of ways. And I think a lot of people who work in any sort of community mental health setting or helping setting, in general, get to that point where it's like I am so burnt out, I don't know what else to do. I really have this dream of starting my own business, controlling my hours, granting my own PTO requests, like having that freedom and autonomy, right? Like, that's always what when I used to do private practice coaching, I was asked, like, what are your big reasons for why you want to do this? And it's always the same answer, is like freedom, autonomy, the ability to have my own control over my situation. But like you said, there is risk involved.

And for most of us, I would imagine, I would guesstimate, like 95 to 98% of us, we probably had no business training, right? So, like, in grad school it's almost taboo to talk about owning a business, then you're in community mental health, and it's like, "No, that's just like a fantasy." You don't really get to do that. And if you do, you do have to reach this elite level of burnout where you've earned it.

And it's like you really don't have to go through this, like, gatekeeper-esque, pull yourself up by your bootstrap mentality of a lot of clinicians in our profession where it's like, once you reach this excelled level of burnout, then you can think about opening a business.

And that really does not have to be a reality for people. If you want to go the community mental health route to get a diversified experience, and, you know, I'm not going to, like, shame people for their decisions, but well, ultimately, what I don't want you to do, if you're listening, is like, prevent yourself from pursuing your goals because you're fearful of the outcome. And entrepreneurs, if you open up a business, I hear a lot of you saying, "I'm not an entrepreneur." But if you open up a small business, there is some entrepreneurial mindset there. There's some desire to control the narrative.

I really want to encourage you to take that risk and to step into that discomfort because, ultimately, a lot of burnout could be prevented, a lot of mental health struggle, a lot of anguish, a lot of like physical discomfort. And a lot of us don't want to let people down, right? Like, we're people pleasers a lot of the time. So, leaving your staff, your employees, your teammates, your clients, it's like, "Oh my God, I'm letting everybody down, but I'm putting myself second all the time."

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Right, right. And that's huge, right? It's like we put our passion above ourselves, and that floats along with that narrative, right? Of like, you're not allowed to make money. Like, you can't make six figures as a therapist because there's shame attached to it, and you know that means that you're not passionate, right? And you're not serving people for free, and you're not taking Medicaid, and you're not… Like, that's not fair. We can't let passion drive us. We have to take care of ourselves.

And I can tell you just personally, how much more of an impact I have on my clients when my mental clarity is free and I have the space to disconnect, you know, and having those four-day weekends where I'm not seeing clients. It gives me time to research. It gives me time to myself to take care of me. Like, I'm excited to step in to see my first client of the day, you know? That is game changer. Like, talk about your passion really thriving, your clients thrive from that too. Healthy therapist, healthier client.

PATRICK CASALE: Oh, for sure, there's a ripple effect, mine too, you know? Like, and I think we get caught up in that mentality of this career path only has to look one certain way, or there's only, like, it's either community mental health or private practice. But in reality, our skill sets as therapists, as helping professionals, as people with advanced degrees are really applicable in so many arenas.

So, like, I know you do speaking engagements, I know you have a group practice, I know you have a coaching program. So, like, there are lots of ways that your skill set can have a much wider impact on the community at large.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah. Absolutely. So, it's so cool to watch. And I have a couple clinicians who've been through my program too, who I just love watching them build different intensives, and expand, and go to speaking events, and, you know, build retreats. And it's so fun to watch.

You don't have to expand beyond private practice, but it opens up a world of possibilities. I never thought I would be coaching therapists to build their private practice. It just sort of came naturally. Like, once I started my private practice, then I expanded to a group practice, and then, I just was so passionate. I found another passion, right? And excitement for, like, we can change every therapist's life, you know, by teaching them how to do this. And then, the possibilities once you do it are just so incredibly endless.

I mean, since then I've opened my coaching business, I've had really cool speaking events, and continue to have those opportunities, which I find really fun, especially, because I do all of this from literally right here. So, getting to do those things brings in community. And, man, it's so nice to talk to, like, real life people that you can touch.

And so, you know, if you want to do more, right? Intensives are massive right now. Those are really cool things to do and expanding your practice if you want to. And even if you don't, like, that's okay too, even if you just want to see 15 clients a week, have your four-day weekends, float in the pool on Mondays while your partners at work, do it, do it, you know?

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: I'm just very, like, always looking for the next thing, that's just sort of who I am. I can't sit still. Maybe that's because I am neurodivergent and ADHD-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:19:11]-

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Maybe, maybe. And it's so funny because, you know, maybe about four weeks in to just my solo private practice, and in leaving that full-time salary job behind, I was like, "Oh, [INDISCERNIBLE 00:19:30], what am I supposed to do? And I kept having to like, "No, no, no. Oh, I could be a travel agent. Oh, no, stop it."

PATRICK CASALE: So relatable.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: I used to [CROSSTALK 00:19:39] spaces in my schedule, and I was always like, "What am I supposed to do with all this time?" Like, because, you know, in reality, my story mirrors yours in a lot of ways. And I think a lot of people listening probably really resonate. I was always, like, in middle management, I was always finding myself promoted, and I was always getting my work done in half the time, but having to be in a location triple the time. And it never made sense to me. I was like, "If I can get my work done in 15 hours or 20 hours, why do I have to be here for 50?"

And you know, like the on-call piece, I will never, ever miss that. But the reality of, like, moving into your own situation, especially, for those of you listening who are more entrepreneurial, who want to do more than just one-on-one practice, who are likely ADHDers because you're like, "My creativity is now like buzzing because I have so much [INDISCERNIBLE 00:20:28] to be able to understand all of the different revenue streams, all of the different ways that you can make money in this profession, and still help people."

Like, for me sitting here with you, this is my third year of this podcast, right? So, like, you'll eventually be like episode 175. And I never thought that was a thing. I didn't know anything about podcasting. I didn't know I could monetize a podcast. I didn't know that I would become a keynote and a TEDx speaker back in grad school. I didn't know I would host my 25th retreat this year. Like, I didn't know any of these things existed. And until you start showing up in different spaces and surrounding yourself with different people, you kind of get a glimpse of like, "Oh, there's so much possibility in this career path, and it does not have to look one certain way."

Because for me, and I think a lot of people who are probably neurodivergent mental health professionals, you probably get uncomfortable by the idea of, like, I have to commit to something for the next 20 or 30 years of my life. Like, I don't even know what I want to do next year, if I'm being quite honest.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: I hope you know what you want to do next year because you've got a lot of things planned.

PATRICK CASALE: 2025 is spoken for, but then people will ask me like, "What do you have in store for 2026?" I'm like, "Living my life that way just feels uncomfortable because then I have to commit certain parts of me to, like, different parts of my schedule."

But it's really nice though too. It's a double-edged sword because it also says like I have the freedom to really get creative about what I want my career to look like, and what I want that trajectory to look like. And until you start, like, taking risks and stepping out of your comfort zone, it's really hard to imagine that there is another possibility, right?

Like, I always talk about timelines, and I think timelines are important, and doing that, like, zoom out in your business, in your career path, and your life. And I can think about, like, 2015, getting my masters. Okay, my timeline says community mental health. Stay there for 30 years. Boom, maybe you'll get loan repayment. I don't know. Probably not. Then it was like private practice in 2017, that's the finish line. Then it was like coaching program, Facebook group, podcast, retreats, group practice, speaking engagements, write a book. I don't know where the next five years takes me. And I think that's the beauty, is like the more risk we take, the more we are easily able to navigate that without as much fear, without as much impostor syndrome and self-doubt to hold us back.

Like, it still exists. But every time you take one more step or one more risk, it allows you to kind of like layer it and build on it so that the next one doesn't take as much mental energy and takes up as much space.

And I really think the more we step out of our comfort zones, the more likely it is that we are going to create career… I almost dropped my fidget, career back that really feel really energizing, passion-filled, and fulfilling.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that's the hardest part, right? Is that impostor syndrome.

So, recently, talking to a couple of newly licensed therapists, right? Who are like, "I really want to start my private practice, but I'm a new therapist. I just got licensed. I feel like I should work for a group practice first."

And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. That doesn't make sense to me because in your private practice, right? Are you going to provide different therapy to that client than you would in the group private practice?" And they're like, "No." I'm like, "Well, so then just the difference is that one of them you're getting paid more, and it's your own, and the other one you're not." And they're like, "Oh." Yes, you're doing the same service. Do you still need support? Do you still need supervision? Utilize your network. There's so much out there.

And even if you, you know, I see a lot of therapists that just don't have a network, there's so many opportunities to connect in your community if you just look for them. And if there isn't one, you make one, yeah, exactly.

PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely, yeah, because you might live in an area, right, if you're listening and you're like, "There is no, like, social media support or therapist group." Right? Here in Asheville, I mean, I'm very lucky. The one is pretty large. It's pretty active and blah, blah, blah, blah.

But if I live more in rural North Carolina and didn't have one, you know, there are other people looking for those connection opportunities. So, if there isn't one, and you feel like you have the energy and capacity to start one, not only do you set yourself up as the face of it, but you also build that know, like, and trust factor. You build that community. You really get to anchor into that.

And I think for those of you listening, even if there is a group in your area, if it's not that active, or just doesn't like feel values-aligned, or it doesn't feel like it really feels like your people, start one.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah, yeah, and then, you can expand from there, right? It's just like, "Hey, let's do coffee on a Saturday. Here's the meetup, here's the time. Love to connect with other people." And that's a great way to build your private practice, too. Is that networking piece?

So, yeah, I mean, just, you know, impostor syndrome creeps in, and I think that we have to challenge that. And we also notice that, like, when impostor syndrome is present, it might mean that we're doing something big, and that we're making a change, and that's okay. Like, embrace it. [INDISCERNIBLE 00:26:18] was not scared to leap into. I mean, you know, I have a family and expenses, and payments, car payments, I had student loan payments, all these things to leap into private practice. Absolutely, I was so scared.

And so, I get it, and you're not alone. Everybody experiences that. There's common humanity in that. And so, I teach a lot about self-compassion, and that is such a huge piece of everything that you do moving forward. So, tied back in, just to bring back what we talked about money mindset, right? There shouldn't be shame behind taking care of yourself, and your family, and your financial needs. You're allowed to do that. That's part of that self-compassion, flipping that script of passion in the driver's seat. Let's put passion in the passenger seat, and you in the driver's seat.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: You need to come along for the ride.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. And I think, you know, impostor syndrome, self-doubt, perfectionism, whatever we want to call it is normal. It's a part of humanity. Like you said, if you're not experiencing it, I'd be a little weirded out by that. I like to think that after all of this stuff over the last five or six years, if I start getting nervous or I start doubting myself, I really know that I'm on the right track. I know to use doubt, and fear, and impostor syndrome more like a compass and a guide, opposed to something that is going to derail me and prevent me. And I've tried to embrace that like doubt yourself, do it anyway motto because honestly, I think that's where the most lived human experience is, is when we really start to embrace that, and we really start to step into that.

So, really appreciate you coming on. On a scale of one to 10, with your anxiety, with how it was before, how are you feeling now?

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: So much better. I'll give you 8.5.

PATRICK CASALE: 8.5, I'll take it. And I think that, you know again, just sharing some of your own story and your journey, and I hope that those of you listening really relate because I think what you're saying, Denielle, is very relatable. I've said it before in a different viewpoint on here many times, and a lot of us are experiencing this kind of emotional roller coaster journey of entrepreneurialship. So, if you are, I hope this was helpful.

Denielle, I know I'm going to see you multiple times in January, both in Belize and in my retreat building event. So, it's headed for that now that we've actually met and connected. Tell the audience where they can find what you're doing and what you've got to offer, and we'll also make sure that all of Denielle's information is in the show notes.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Yeah, absolutely. So, I have so much so bear with me for a second. So, you can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, pretty much any social media platform, and we'll drop those links for you.

But I also have a Facebook group. It's called Therapist Freedompreneurs. There's over 30 free private practice trainings. I do one to two live free trainings every month. Just did one yesterday. They're all in there for replays. You can watch at any time. Lots of pro tips and free guides in that Facebook group. So, you're more than welcome to join that.

I also have, obviously, a website, Saltwater Counseling. Here's something you should never name your two businesses the same thing. So, Saltwater Counseling and Wellness is my private practice. Saltwater Coaching and Consulting is my coaching business. And so, you can find lots of information in there, free guide, free five step guide for you. If you're ready to take some steps into launching your private practice. I'm always available via Facebook Messenger or email if you have questions.

PATRICK CASALE: Awesome.

DENIELLE RIGOGLIOSO-LAMBERT: Thank you so much for having me.

PATRICK CASALE: You're very welcome and I'll see you in like two months in our neurodivergent retreat resort in Belize. So, I'm really excited for that too.

For everyone listening to All Things Private Practice, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, and share. You can also check out my online two-day intensive retreat-building event at the end of January.

I'm also co-hosting a event for group practice owners with Gabrielle Juliano-Villani and Maureen Werbach in January. And you can also come to Scotland in July for the Doubt Yourself, Do It Anyway summit. So, make sure to check out those opportunities on my website allthingspractice.com. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. See you next week.