Episode 170: How Selling Your Group Practice Can Lead to Greater Gains [featuring Jessica Harris]

Show Notes

In this episode, I talked with Jessica Harris, LCSW and business coach for therapists, about her journey from building a thriving private pay group practice to selling it to focus solely on empowering other therapists through her coaching.

Key Takeaways:

1. Transitioning with Strategy: Jessica reveals how she successfully sold her group practice while ensuring continuity and support for her team, opting to sell it to a trusted colleague rather than a faceless firm.
2. Balancing Passion and Practicality: Learn from Jessica's experience of balancing a booming coaching business with the demands of running a group practice, and how she decided to follow her true passion.
3. Importance of Mindset: Jessica emphasizes the critical role of mindset in business growth and shares how trusting her intuition has led to continuous success in her entrepreneurial journey.

More about Jessica:

Jessica Harris is an LCSW and business coach for therapists growing a private pay practice. After building a thriving private pay group practice—where she hired six therapists and consistently attracted 5-10 full-fee clients weekly—Jessica sold her therapy practice to focus solely on empowering other therapists to get cash-pay clients. She now dedicates herself to coaching therapists through her 12-week program, designed to help therapists simplify marketing and fill their caseload with cash-pay clients. Jessica is on a mission to help therapists everywhere create financial abundance and achieve their dream lives while making a meaningful impact in the world.

• Website: empoweringtherapists.com
• Facebook: facebook.com/groups/privatepaytherapy
• Instagram: instagram.com/empoweringtherapists
• Free 3 step guide to get cash pay clients: freebie.empoweringtherapists.com/vsl

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A Thanks to Our Sponsors: The Receptionist for iPad & Alma!

✨ The Receptionist for iPad:

I want to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.

From new patients faced with an empty lobby and no idea where to find their therapist to clinicians with a session running over time and the doorbell ringing, some of the most anxiety-ridden moments of a therapy appointment happen before a session even starts. The Receptionist for iPad, helps you tackle some of that pre-appointment apprehension and anxiety.

The Receptionist for iPad is an easy-to-use digital client check-in system that helps your visitors check in securely to their appointments and notify their practitioners of their arrival via SMS, email, or your preferred channel.

No more confusion and less lobby checking or having clients sign in on paper logbooks. It can even help you upgrade and update your demographic information for your clients as well and even validate parking.

Start a 14-day free trial of the Receptionist for iPad by going to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice. Make sure to start your trial with that link and you'll also get your first month free if you decide to sign up.

✨Alma

I want to thank Alma for sponsoring this episode.

Building and managing the practice you want can be challenging. That’s why Alma offers tools and resources to help you build not just any practice, but your private practice. They’ll help you navigate insurance, access referrals who are the right fit for you, and efficiently manage administrative tasks — so you can spend less time on the details, and more time delivering great care. You support your clients. Alma supports you.

Visit helloalma.com/ATPP to learn more.

Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to All Things Private Practice. I'm joined today by Jessica Harris, who's an LCSW and business coach for therapists growing private pay practices. After building a thriving private pay group practice where she hired six therapists and consistently attracted five to 10 full-fee clients weekly, Jessica sold her practice to focus solely on empowering other therapists to get cash-pay clients. She now dedicates herself to coaching therapists through her 12-week program designed to help therapists simplify marketing and fill their caseload with cash-pay clients. And really excited to have you on.

And we have touched a little bit on this podcast about selling a group practice with Gabrielle Juliano-Villani, but her practice sold because she was a Medicare practice. So, this is like the opposite end of the spectrum when we're talking about attracting private pay clients, which a lot of you who are listening are like, "How the hell do I even do that?" And then, more importantly, like selling a group practice. I think a lot of people right now are honestly trying to get out of that space where they've created a group practice and they're kind of like, "This is so stressful. I didn't expect it to be like this. How do I get out from under?"

So, yeah, anything I missed in your bio that you want to add context for the audience, or anything that you think they should definitely know about you?

JESSICA HARRIS: No, I think you covered it all. And, yeah, it's been exciting to go through that journey. And yeah, you're absolutely right. It can be exhausting sometimes, you know, growing a group practice, which I loved, but then I was like, "Oh, I'm also doing this coaching side of things." Which I found I ended up liking more. And yeah, an exciting journey.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. So, I can definitely resonate with that and relate to that. So, I have a group practice here in North Carolina. And we've got 20 clinicians. And it's grown exponentially larger than I ever really anticipated it to grow to. And as someone who grew the practice, like, I feel like my trajectory is always backwards from a lot of people's.

And I started my group practice after my coaching practice had already taken off. And I realized, like, I don't want to do one-on-one therapy anymore. And then, I started a group practice back in 2021. And I have to live in both worlds because All Things Private Practice, the retreats, the podcast, the speaking engagements, has really taken me far away from clinical work, but I still am the CEO of Resilient Mind Counseling. So, it's a challenge to live in both worlds.

And I know for me, although, I love my staff, especially, if you're listening, I do love my staff. I employ a lot of friends. We employ a lot of good people. We really support the neurodivergent community here in Appalachia and Western North Carolina, which is a passion of mine. However, I would not say that is where my energy lies. My energy is definitely much more in the coaching, consulting business building side.

So, I know a lot of people are in those positions where they're like, "I can't do both because I feel like my energy is spread so thin." You relate to that?

JESSICA HARRIS: No, 100%. That's exactly how it was for me. And I started with the group practice, well, started with myself, first, filling up myself, and then a group practice. And I loved it. And it was really exciting to be getting, you know, lots of clients coming in. I loved hiring all the therapists I hired. Like, it was really exciting.

The coaching thing kind of just happened, spur of the moment, where a lot of people were like, "How did you grow so quick? Can I get some help?" And then I, like, turned it into this business.

And between those two and being a single mom, I started realizing my energy was spread so thin. And I never had plans to sell my private practice. It was funny because I actually would listen to podcasts and people would talk about selling a practice. And I was like, "Oh, why don't they just, like, hire more people to, like, do the managing end of things?"

And like, I guess I just didn't know what I didn't know. And I realized, like, I'm always going to have a lot of energy into this practice. The coaching was really blowing up and I found myself enjoying it more. And then, yeah, being a single mom, trying to have a social life, and health and fitness, and take care of my own mental health and emotional health, all of the things, my energy was spread so thin. And so, I totally relate. And that, for me, I was like, "Something has to go because I can't do it all." So, yeah, I totally relate.

And depending on if, like, I was in a different stage in my life, maybe I could have done both for longer, but just where I was at and the burnout was very strong at the moment. And I'm the type of person where I love to, like, when I'm really dedicated to something I go all in, and I'm always thinking about it, and always want to, you know, find ways to improve things, yeah. And I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs are the same. And so, trying to do that with two growing businesses, I was like, "I can't do this right now." And that's okay. But everyone has such a different journey there, for sure.

PATRICK CASALE: For sure. You made a lot of good points. And I'm like, thinking about what I want to start with. And you know, a lot of people find themselves at that crossroads that they didn't expect to be in. Like, for a lot of people listening, myself included, maybe you too, when I was in grad school I never really thought my career could go where it's gone. I just assumed, like, I would go into community mental health, that would be it. I realized very quickly that was not for me.

And when I started my private practice, I was like, "Okay, this is the finish line." But as someone who's very entrepreneurial, who's also ADHD, and has a lot of ideas, it just was never going to work in that regard. And I started getting like, oh, like, I'm doing these coaching programs. I'm helping all these therapists start their own businesses. Oh, I have this Facebook group that's blowing up. The podcast is blowing up, retreats are blowing up. And I was like, "Holy shit. Like, how do I keep a handle on all of that?" Let alone also be a leader, also be a boss, also, because I'm invested 100% in everything I do, it's exhausting.

And I think a lot of people find themselves at that existential crossroads of, like, which one do I get rid of or give up? And for a lot of people, like, selling sounds like a fantasy. It's like, "Oh, that sounds amazing, but I probably can't do that."

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah. Absolutely. I remember the very first time the idea of selling popped into my mind I was like, "That sounds terrifying, because what if coaching suddenly dips? What if, like, it doesn't work out anymore?" That's where all of my, you know, income will then be coming from.

And things were going pretty well, and it was consistent, but I probably only had my coaching business for maybe six months when the idea… No seven months, when the idea first planted in my mind. Then I was only doing my program. It was probably only been like five months since I had done my 12-week program, since I had launched. And so, it was very new and very risky, and where, you know, people say, like, sometimes, like, the logic doesn't make sense, but you just go for it. And the logic made zero sense. Like, why would I be giving up this income stream that is consistent, the therapy practice to just, like, take this leave? But I just felt so strongly that I needed to.

And when the idea first came into my mind, I like, sat on it for a couple months, and then just decided I knew what I needed to do. And, yeah, it was kind of like I knew that the coaching program, like, I wanted to keep focusing on that, and because I was literally shutting all other things I like, knew, you know, this is what I have to keep focusing on, so it's going to make it work. But, yeah, definitely very terrifying. And I agree with, like, the fantasy thoughts because that's how [INDISCERNIBLE 00:08:52]-

PATRICK CASALE: Terrifying, for sure. I think that's a good word. And also, the reality of, like, I think, because this podcast is focused more on entrepreneurial stuff, I want to go that route, which is, basically, that exact situation where you have that steady income stream, that consistency, that reliability, almost that, like, security and safety, but you know that that's not exactly where your passion lies, and that you want to move into that place of the coaching, like you said. And that is terrifying when you are thinking about giving up something that is consistent because I think that immediate thought is, "What if it fails? What if all of a sudden I no longer attract all of these coaching clients?"

And I think we have to step into that fear, to that unknown space, into that kind of place of like, okay, this is scary, but it's exciting. And if it's both scary and exciting, I think you're on the right track.

And my whole, like, doubt yourself, do it anyway philosophy really has been because that's how I've become successful of, "Ooh, here's this idea that is really energizing. I'm really passionate about it. And I'm going to have to give something up. I'm going to have to make a big transition, a big change, and a big shift."

And ultimately, those are the times where you kind of have to have that entrepreneurial resilience of, yeah, it may be a struggle. It may have a lot of bumps along the road. And that fearfulness of like, the bottom is going to fall out, but in reality, circling back to like, "Okay, well, I was scared when I started my private practice. I was scared when I started my group practice. I was scared when I started my…" You know, like you have to anchor into that a little bit, and then you have to let yourself go.

So, big congrats to you for making that decision. I'm sure it was not easy.

Now, for those who are listening who are probably thinking, "How did you sell your practice. Like, did you go the broker route? Did you end up, like, negotiating with a bunch of different interested companies?" How did that look for you?

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah. So, for me, I feel like I went a different route from a lot of people. Because for me, I feel like I recognize, okay, this practice is only where it's at because the therapists that I've hired are really good and keeping their clients. And the thought of, like, hiring someone who is going to pay me the most, and then change everything, and then, the therapist could leave at any point, like if they don't like it there. I don't know, for some reason that scared me, and I still felt very attached to my practice.

And so, I decided, actually, to… My very first person that I hired, who was a good friend of mine, who's an incredible therapist, and stepping into this, like, entrepreneur role, I actually offered it to her. And obviously, she didn't have this huge chunk of money to just hand out. And so, that's where we talked with some lawyers and kind of figured out a game plan for her, for, like, basically, a long-term loan. So, that's kind of the route that we went.

And so, that I felt like too was another leap of faith where it's like, "Hey, I'm not going to be making all this money right now, where I can just sit tight." But I felt really good about that. And I don't know, like, yeah, I didn't feel like the most logical thing. And I'd even seen people posting in my state like, "Hey, I'm looking to buy a therapy practice." And I don't know, it just never resonated to me to reach out. And sometimes the decisions I make aren't always the most logical, but I don't have any regrets. I'm so glad I sold it to her. She's incredible. She's kept a lot of things the same, and even better now because she's got all of her attention to focus on it.

And so, yeah, I went that route. We definitely had a lot of help from my accountant and our lawyers. And they figured something out. But yeah, I'm glad that I went that route, and I've always felt really good about that. I know that's not what everyone does, though.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I like that. I mean, that feels like the unorthodox things to do because everyone's selling to like these firms or even health insurance companies now. Unfortunately, that's a whole nother conversation.

And if I wanted to sell, I would be in the same boat as you, where I want the culture to stay the same. I think that's a big struggle for people. Like, I really value the employees we have, the culture that's been created, the fact that we get 100 resumes a month because of the reputation that we have. Like, the fact that we are exploding with client calls all the time. I would not want to sacrifice what has been built.

And I think that for me to feel good, I would also want to sell it to one of our clinicians, or even a collective of the clinicians, in terms of having it stay really consistently similar. So, I like that you did it that way. And I think what you said makes a lot of sense. Like, you didn't think it makes a lot of logical sense, but it sounds like intuitively that's what made sense for you.

And for me, I am definitely a gut feeling type of person. Like, trying really hard to step into that, like generator energy, if you follow human design at all, and really just following your intuition and your gut. And saying, like, this is what feels good for me, I'm going to pursue it.

So, how long ago did you sell your practice?

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah, I sold it in June. And it's November right now. So, however many, five months.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, since that time what has the rest of your life looked like? Like, how has that impacted the coaching business and everything that you're doing?

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah, no, that's a great question, and it has honestly been so freeing to free up so much of my time and energy because I cared so deeply about making sure all the clinicians were full, making sure the company culture was good. Like, that was always such a big passion of mine and I just didn't have the time for that anymore. So, it has been very freeing. I've been able to put a lot more systems in place for my coaching business. I've been able to hire out. I had already hired maybe like two or three people, but now I've hired probably like four or five more people since then, and I've been able to make the program better so that therapists can get more private pay clients and fill up.

And then, I also did my first retreat in October, and that ended up taking, as I'm sure, you know, a lot of energy because it was my very first retreat, and I wanted to be really good. And so, that took a ton of my energy, but I was able to have that time because I had sold my practice. And yeah, so really just building systems for my coaching program, doing the first retreat. And I've started doing some of the grant work for writing a book that I'm going to start at the beginning of the year.

And so, all of those things I've been able to do and grow the program. And the program, like, each month keeps going up. More people are joining. And so, I feel like it would not be in the same place if I was still holding on to the practice.

And like, I always say this, maybe if I wasn't a single mom, or even just a mom in general, even if I had a partner, I maybe could have kept both, but I just wanted, like, a lot of time with her, and I was feeling bad that I didn't have the time and energy to give her. So, yeah, just kind of the stage of life I've been in. But, yeah, it's been incredible since selling it. And I've been able to focus on the things that really give me energy and just keep growing in that way.

PATRICK CASALE: It's amazing. That's awesome. And I think that's what a lot of people are looking for, right? Is that feeling of freedom. Almost that, like, weight off your shoulders, because I can totally relate to, like, feeling like I am concerned about livelihoods all the time and making sure people feel taken care of. It's a lot of energy. I'm amazed I do all the things that I do with all the mental energy that does go into that. And I know for a fact it would definitely feel liberating to be like, I'm not putting 40% of my brain or my personhood into this every day. So, for sure, congrats on that. How did the retreat go? Who was it like designed for?

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah, it was so exciting. It was designed for therapists who wanted to kind of take their practice to the next level. So, therapists already had their own practice, and some of them were people who, like, still needed to, like, fill up their practice. Some of them are people who wanted other income streams. It was very much designed for, like, you're a therapist in private practice and you want to go bigger. Whatever that looks like.

And then, also, designed for a lot of self-care, relaxation mindset work. I'm so big on mindset. That like makes biggest difference in business ownership. So, it was actually one of the best weekends of my life. Like, I loved it. It was so fun. Actually, most of the people that came had been through my program. There were a couple of people who hadn't, but it was just so fun to meet everyone in person and just be around women who were just, like, kind of in the same boat, like wanted to grow more, didn't fully know how, needed to take care of themselves and their mindset. And it was a really transformative weekend.

So, I'm already planning my next one in March. And I never thought I would go into retreats, too. And that's the thing, like so many things that I'm doing, I never thought I would go into. It's just an old friend of mine was like, "Hey, I do retreats at my house if you ever want to do one." And I was like, "I don't think so." But I took a tour. And while I was taking the tour, I was like, "Oh, I can see [CROSSTALK 00:20:57]-

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:20:57].

JESSICA HARRIS: Powerful, in Sandy, Utah, and kind of in the mountains.

PATRICK CASALE: Oh, cool.

JESSICA HARRIS: [CROSSTALK 00:21:03] mountains, so, yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: It's amazing how, like, when we open ourselves up to new opportunities and take more risks we start to see more possibilities. We start to become a little bit more creative. And we start to become a little less risk averse. I think therapists, notoriously, really struggle with that initial leap into private practice, into that next step. And then, once you start, like, taking more risks, creating more of the things that you're interested in and passionate about, you're like, "Oh, I can build on this." And it kind of starts layering and compounding.

And that doesn't mean like the next risk isn't scary. It just means that you're much more likely to take the leap instead of, like, holding yourself back with all of these self-limiting beliefs that can exist.

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like everything I do feels a little scary. Like I remember when I posted about the retreat and the panic of, like, "What if nobody joins and nobody paid?" I think, the first night, which now sounds so silly, but I was like, expecting, like, hey, people are going to join right away. And then, no one did. And I panicked. And then, a ton of people, like, the next day reached out. Or like, whenever I raised my price, or whenever I do anything I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like, whenever I change something, there's always that fear. But, yeah, it's like, you do it anyway. Like, kind of like your doubt yourself to do it anyways.

And I feel like everything in business ownership feels scary, even though, from the outside looking in, people might be like, "Whoa. They've done so much. They must have not had fear. And just like, they must just operate differently than me." When in reality, it's like, now everything has been terrifying, and just kind of do it anyways. Obviously, there's some logic and strategy that goes in there, but some of it, there's not as much logic.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.

JESSICA HARRIS: But you feel like in your gut, and that has been huge for my business, like, journey. I feel like I grew up ignoring my gut and ignoring myself a lot. And so, it's been really cool the past two or three years to really tap into, like, no, my gut knows. Like, my body intuitively knows what is best and to really trust that on the journey.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. And I think I kind of do the build the plane as you fly it, type of perspective. Like, I remember launching my first Ireland retreat back in 2022. It's amazing that this will be the fourth year in row that will be there. And I remember posting on my Facebook like, "If I hosted a retreat in Ireland who would come?"

And I had no plan in place. I just was curious. It's like 60 people who are like, "Yeah, I would do that." But then, building the actual event, putting the sales cart together, launching it, and then the fear of like, "Is anyone actually going to sign up for this? This is horrifying."

Ended up selling out pretty quickly. Sold the second one out before I even touched down in American soil from that event. And since that time, I'm about to host six more in 2025 that'll make like 25 in the last four years. And it's just absolutely wild. But that fear always exists of, is anyone actually going to pay for this? I think that feels really natural.

And I think when we go into things like overly confident of like, "Oh yeah, this is not going to be an issue." That's when it can be a struggle emotionally, and sometimes it can be a letdown. But I love that perspective. It sounds like you're doing amazing things in the field and just helping therapists think bigger, which I love. And that's what we love to have here on this podcast. So, thanks for sharing a little bit of your journey.

For those who want to work with you or those who want to find you, what does that look like?

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah, I have a Facebook group where I actually just have a ton of free trainings too to learn how to get private pay clients. And it's the Therapist Private Pay Accelerator, free Facebook group that people can join. You can follow me on Instagram @empoweringtherapists. Or you can sign up for a free consultation call to see if the 12-week program would be a good fit as well. And you can do that at empoweringtherapists.com.

PATRICK CASALE: Awesome, and all of that information will be in the show notes so that you have easy access to everything that Jessica just listed. I really appreciate you coming on and making the time today. And it's been cool getting to know what you're doing out in the world and what you're coming up with in 2025.

JESSICA HARRIS: Yeah, no, it's been a pleasure. And it's been exciting hearing all the things that you're doing. And, yeah, it's cool hearing, like, some of the overlap. And I love your perspective on things. So, thank you for having me.

PATRICK CASALE: You're very welcome. And to everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice podcast, new episodes are out every single Saturday on all major platforms and YouTube. You can like, download, subscribe, and share.

Make sure that if you have not already, you sign up for my online retreat building intensive that's happening in January. We have a couple of spots left for that. Or you come to Scotland for the second Doubt Yourself, Do it Anyway summit in July. All of the other retreats for 2025 are sold out. And you can join those waiting lists too. See you next week.