Episode 90: Business Partnerships: The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly [featuring Kate Campbell & Katie Lemieux]

Show Notes

Many therapists starting private practice consider working with a partner.

Some may feel motivated by impostor syndrome around going into business alone, or they may just have a friendly relationship with another therapist and think that starting a business together sounds great.

Whatever the reason, partnerships can be really amazing, but they also can be complicated and not go as planned, so it's important to establish the expectations, boundaries, and "break up" from the beginning.

If you've ever considered a business partnership for private practice, then this episode is for you.

In this episode, I talk with Kate Campbell, PhD, LMFT, and Katie Lemieux, LMFT, co-owners of The Private Practice Startup.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

1. Understand why a good partnership begins with planning for "divorce."
2. See how Kate and Katie have expanded their business ventures and maintained a successful partnership for over a decade.
3. Identify the qualities of a healthy and successful business partnership, and learn how to set the foundations for one.

If you are considering having a business partner for your private practice, take the time to prepare and plan from the start. With a plan that takes you from the beginning to the literal end, you'll be in the best position to make a partnership that works and thrives.

More about Kate & Katie:

The Private Practice Startup is co-owned by Kate Campbell, PhD, LMFT and Katie Lemieux, LMFT. They’re two therapists with entrepreneurial spirits who are crazy about business. They live, work, and play in South Florida. 

They both built their 6-figure private practices in less than 2 years from the ground up and love inspiring ambitious mental health professionals to brand themselves and grow their dream private practices! They have a hunger for business, branding, and marketing.  

They love helping private practitioners work with the clients they love, profit more in business, and create the freedom to truly enjoy a lifestyle business.  

Together, they have been featured as guest experts on GoodTherapy.org, Therapy Sites, Your Badass Therapy Practice, Abundance Practice Building podcast, Selling the Couch podcast, Practice of the Practice podcast, Brighter Vision’s podcast, John Clarke’s Cast, Private Practice University, Practice of Therapy Podcast, Love Your Practice podcast, Become a Group Guru, and more. 

They are the creators of Private Practice Marketing E-Course and Coaching and provide free podcasts, and customizable Attorney Approved Private Practice Paperwork for therapists.

Visit PrivatePracticeStartup.com for more info!

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A Thanks to Our Sponsor: The Receptionist for iPad!

The Receptionist for iPad:

I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.

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Transcript

PATRICK CASALE: Hey, everyone, you're listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Casale, joined today by my friends Katie and Kate from The Private Practice Startup. And we are going to talk about partnerships, the good, bad, and ugly because Kate and Katie, as most of you know, have a podcast, have a coaching program, have a lot of resources out in the community. But they work together and they started this business together. And we're going to talk about that journey because I think a lot of people want to start businesses with a friend or a colleague and don't always think things through.

And I know, you know, the three of us have kind of talked before about like, you have to almost start this like going into a marriage and preparing for divorce. So, yeah, why don't you all just jump and just share some of the story and how this came to be? And we'll kind of go from there. 

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah, we're happy to be here, Patrick. So, thanks for having us. And it's interesting because as you were just kind of like interviewing us, I took a moment to be like, when did we get into business together? And it's almost been 10 years, which is crazy. How is that even a thing? Where is the time going?

KATIE LEMIEUX: Yeah, so…

PATRICK CASALE: That's insane, that's an entire decade of working together as a private-

KATE CAMPBELL: I know. And it's evolved in so many ways since we first started working together. Katie, I know you often like to share the story of how we came to work together. I don't know if you want to jump in and kick it off with that. 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Sure. So, Kate and I have known each other far longer than we've been in business together. And we kind of progressed together, right? So, we were in licensure supervision together, we went to Dr. AnnaLynne Schooley, and then, we both did WMT supervision of supervision with her. And then she, as we say, twisted our arms to resurrect Broward Association of Marriage and Family Therapy, which kind of was like a failing chapter at the time. We said yes because who can say no to Schooley? So, we did that. 

And initially, I don't remember what role I had on the board, but I don't know who the VP was at the time [CROSSTALK 00:02:49].

KATE CAMPBELL: You were a board member. 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Yeah. And then the VP stepped down, Kate was the president. And, you know, she asked me to be the VP and I was like, "Sure." And then we started working really well together to resurrect the board and create all of these trainings, and things like that. And from what I know, Kate knew that I love to do trainings. And Kate had always wanted to do the 16-hour supervision course, which was 16 hours at the time, it's now 12 hours, and asked like, "Hey, do you want to do the training together?" And then, that's where it all started. 

KATE CAMPBELL: Yes, you were- 

KATIE LEMIEUX: And then, we went a year and a half creating that training. 

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah, it was a long time. I went to take the training, and it was the most like god-awful, boring training I've ever taken in my life. And it was like a total snooze fest for two days, eight hours each day. And I'm like, "We could do this and make it so fun, and, you know, just kind of do this as like a side hustle." Because we're both in private practice. We both had, you know, thriving practices at the time. And so, we were thinking we would just start this business together. So, you went from my VP to my BP. 

So, for those of you who don't know, we call each other BP. And often when we're texting each other, like our phones will say baby instead of BP like, "Hey, baby." And it's like, no, it's BP. So, it gets kind of humorous, BP as in business partners. 

So, she has been my business partner for many, many years. And it's been a great experience working with Katie. It's a big deal getting into business with anyone, whether you're friends with them and already have a relationship, whether you're, you know, professional colleagues, or whether you're just merging together and joining for the purposes of managing a business and running that together. 

Definitely, it's a big thing and it is like you're getting married. And it's important to really take your time to make sure you're getting into this relationship with a person who has similar values and really complements your strengths, who works well with you in a lot of different levels because business is not always easy. Oftentimes, there's a lot of twists and turns, and unexpected challenges that come up. And then, as you're together for the long haul because that's the goal of having a business for long-term reasons, and you want to see the business grow, you also grow and evolve as a person. And sometimes you grow in different ways. And sometimes you can grow apart just like relationships do in a marriage, right? When maybe their interest change and evolve, or maybe you evolve through life. 

Like for myself, I didn't have kids when Katie and I were first starting to work together. And now I have two boys. My oldest is turning eight, tomorrow, Landon, and my youngest is three. 

So, when we first started working together, I was in a very different stage of my life. And now I'm having two kids, and managing all of the schedules, and everything with them. And then, we're both business owners, have multiple businesses. And so, there's a lot of parts to juggle. 

And so, as you're in this relationship with your partner, over time, life will start to evolve, and things will start to shift. And it's really important to have somebody that you're starting a relationship with that can evolve and shift with you. And you have that really good communication with them to be able to work through the sticking points, or the challenges, or to be able to just navigate all of that. So, there's a lot of characteristics and qualities that you want to make sure you're mindful of as you're getting into this relationship with your partner.

KATIE LEMIEUX: And I would say Kate and I because we were on the board, we had this opportunity to almost try each other out without even knowing that's what we were doing. And it was like there that we were realized, like, "Oh, we actually do work really well together." And then, so, it evolved, right? I think a lot of times people are getting in business. And I also want to add Kate, you said, you were kind of identifying the business relationships or who you would partner with. But sometimes people can partner with their partner or their spouse. And that can add extra layers on things too. 

But like we have this, I think, year and a half or maybe more of just working together. And I was like, "Oh, this is easy, this makes a lot of sense." And I know for me, I had spoke with a very dear friend of mine, who's also a family law attorney, and she actually had a partner and it went sideways, and they actually dissolved their partnership. But she's the one that gave me the advice. Like, you need to treat this like a marriage and you need to talk about divorce today. You know what I mean? 

And to me, I feel like that was one of the best pieces of advice because maybe we should all be talking about this a lot more in our own marriages, right? And because you got to think through that. And there's a lot of things, and Kate and I, we initially kind of made this rough draft operating agreement, then like two and a half years ago I had an attorney I know like write it up. And now we've like formalized it. 

But it's very interesting the things you talk through. Like, your operating agreement, I think ours is like 28 pages. Like, you have to consider like things and you begin to discuss. Like, okay, so what if you don't want to do the business anymore? What if I don't want to do the business anymore? Like, who's going to buy out? Who's not? What do we do? Do we sell it? What happens if we have a disagreement and we can't figure that out? Well, okay, we're agreeing to go mediation. Okay, well, what happens if you get a divorce? What happens if I get a divorce? What are the Florida laws around divorce as it relates to your… 

Like, so it becomes very multi-layered, and depending on what state you're in, so I'll just kind of share this as a little interesting tidbit, for people who are thinking about this, is that you need to understand if your state is a community-based law state. Meaning any assets you have, and you're getting divorced, then your partner has access to, right? Florida's not that type of state. But it's things to think about because it's like an operating agreement. It basically states that this would be considered part of the divorce, but the spouse can't access the funds of this because it's our business, but then you have to give up funds somewhere else, you know, in regards to the amount of money you have in your business. 

So, it's just all these things to think through and think about. And then, it's also like, in the case of like death. It's like, okay, well, you know, if Kate had passed away, you know, her husband would have access to the finances, but he wouldn't have access to decision-making, you know what I mean? So, it's just this very interesting conversation to have. Luckily, we chose an attorney who was just very like, you know, he just made it so easy to understand, and this was very casual. So, we're like, "Okay, well, this makes sense." Of course, and there's reading through all the legal stuff and you're like, "I'm brain fogged, explain that to me."

So, it's important. Yeah, it's important to talk through, like, what does this look like over time? And what are the different situations that we can, potentially, not necessarily predict that will happen, but the situations that would come up that would create, you know, issues in this partnership. So, that was very helpful. 

PATRICK CASALE: Sounds like it. And that's such a helpful response because I think so often, right, like people are just jumping into partnership because it either feels exciting at first, or it feels scary. I think that's what I see the most of, is like, I want to start a private practice, or a business with a friend, or a colleague, and it's because I'm intimidated to do it on my own. And without really thinking of the ramifications of in a potential business divorce because I think it probably happens more often than not. 

And you two seem [INDISCERNIBLE 00:10:53]. I know you behind the scenes, but very close and connected. And you have very complementary skills. Like, Katie, I know you're like systems, systems, systems. And, Kate, you have really amazing ideas and you two really work well together, it seems like. And I'm sure that comes with a lot of difficult conversation, especially, when life evolves and changes, and circumstance changes, and time allocation changes. And like, is this still something that I'm feeling really passionate about showing up in? And to be able to do this for an entire decade together, I imagine there have been some tough conversations behind the scenes too.

KATIE LEMIEUX: True.

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah, we've had a lot of tough conversations over the years. And it's interesting, just how the, you know, our working relationship has evolved and strengthened. And, you know, our interests have evolved as well. And our passions shift over time. 

So, we started off as this training company, doing the CEUs, and the supervision training. And then, we transitioned into The Private Practice Startup and offering a lot of coaching and our private practice marketing eCourse. And we've had a podcast for, what? Has it been seven years, Katie? Seven years. So, we've had a podcast for seven years, we've got over 350 episodes. And Patrick, you've been a repeat guest on numerous episodes, and always great to get to spend time with you and have you on. 

And so, it's just interesting how the relationship and the business interests and passions evolve over time. And sometimes it evolves as a result of some very difficult conversations. And I can remember when we were… you know, early on in business, we made a lot of mistakes. And we learned a lot of lessons the hard way. And that's one of the reasons we're so passionate about helping private practitioners to not make those same mistakes, to not become a slave to their business. And Katie and I were slaves to the business. This was supposed to be a side hustle, something that we did on top of having our very busy separate private practices. I have a group practice here in South Florida, we now have three locations. It's called Bayview Therapy. And Katie had her own successful private practice. So, we were managing a lot. 

And then, as The Private Practice Startup continued to grow, you know, we found ourselves doing a lot of things in the business that we really didn't need to be doing. We were consumed by managing the email, and websites, and technology, and the podcast system, which has like 30 steps in it for one episode. And you know, we were still doing some of these things. And even though we were amazing at systemizing, and we knew how to outsource, we found ourselves kind of falling into the traps of just bootstrapping, and doing a lot of these things ourselves, which I'm sure a lot of listeners can relate to. 

And then, we realized that we needed to make some serious changes in the business if we were going to be able to continue to focus on our passions and not completely burn out. And so, you know, I can remember going to the hospital, getting ready to give birth, in active labor with my oldest who's turning eight, so this was eight years ago, and answering emails for The Private Practice Startup and phone calls. And like all of this stuff that didn't matter on the way to the hospital. 

And there's just moments like that where we found ourselves in situations in our working relationship where things needed to change and there were necessary changes in order for us to be able to stay in alignment with our life goals. And so, that's kind of sparked some, you know, very important conversations that we've had. And we've had numerous times where we've kind of had to have like a CTJ, sit down with each other. Like, what are we doing with this company? What direction are we going in? Are we really in alignment with our passions and serving Startup Nation in the best possible way? 

And so, even though those conversations and those moments are very difficult and can be hard to navigate and emotional, it's always resulted in a really positive outcome and an outcome that is better for us as business partners, better for Startup Nation, and the way that we're serving them, and better for our lives, being able to be in alignment with the freedom and flexibility that is such an important value for both Katie and I and one of the many reasons why we're entrepreneurs in the first place. So Katie, anything you want to add? Because I know I just kind of went on a tangent.

KATIE LEMIEUX: I know, we're just kind of talking. And I'm like, I don't remember what Patrick even asked us.

KATE CAMPBELL: About the challenges. 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Oh, okay. I'm just listening to you. Well, you know, I know that you had mentioned earlier about kind of, like, the different evolutions but life, also, when you're working together for almost a decade, life also impacts you. Kate and I have been through births, probably deaths, I would assume, illnesses, superfamily stuff, you know, our own evolutions. Like, it was sending in growth sometimes.

KATE CAMPBELL: Pandemics, 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Pandemics, like you had a switch, and alter your business. And he and I used to meet up once a week. We used to have our meeting in person. We rarely see each other live anymore. But yeah, so it's like, you know, working through all of that. And it's been very interesting, you know? 

And I don't know, I'm a team person. I like the team, I just flourish in team for several reasons. One, I've been in management leadership since 26 years old, and also two, like you hit the nail on the head, Patrick, is that we have different strengths and resources, and you know, weaknesses, and to be doing all of the stuff on your own it's a lot. 

And you know, I think about, there's been times in our business, and if anyone has a thriving business, no matter what it is, is there's trolls and haters, and just people who can be really nasty, and mean, and there's times that you mess up also in your business that you have to, like, be like, great, I have to do a whole PR thing because I totally made a mistake, and you know, we have this online business where things are out there in the world. And I don't know that I couldn't imagine, you know, not having Kate to go through that with because it's like, "Oh, crap, this happened." I'm like, "How are we going to deal with this? How are we going to address this?" You know. So, that stuff has just always been important. 

And you know, interestingly, Kate and I, we don't hang out with each other a lot. We do see each other from time to time. We kind of have our separate lives and friends outside, but we do get together. But we just have this genuine care and concern for each other. And I think that's really what drives a lot of it. It's like, you know, even though the difficult conversations Kate's talking about is, you know, she would express like, my loyalty for you, and like, it's just so hard because I don't want to hurt you. And you know what I mean? And it's, you know, they're very emotional conversations. 

But the beautiful thing, like Kate said, is we always progress, you know what I mean? Like, there's things that I've learned in our business, you know, with Kate that I can utilize elsewhere and looking at my other businesses like, "Well, why am I doing this, you know? I need to let go of that." Like, who would ever thought that you need to get out of your own email, right?

And it's like, I remember, like, we had this, we're like, "Okay, this is what we're doing by this time, this is how we're going to do it." We were kind of doing it already, but we're in the email, but like, that's just made this world of difference in the headspace of worrying about PBS email. Now, there's other emails that [INDISCERNIBLE 00:18:30] with, but that's a different story. So, there's just a lot of growth that's also happened too, and you know, that I'm forever grateful for that.

PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And it's amazing, because I think, you know, when you think about a decade in terms of relationship with anybody, in any capacity, it's a substantial milestone. And it's just incredible to say that you've watched the evolution and the progression, and you're still here creating, and working together, and thriving together, and, obviously, have so much care, and concern, and love for each other. 

And, you know, I think that has to make the hard times easier when you're saying, you know, there's a PR situation, or I messed up, or I have to process my own emotions around whatever's happening. It's got to be really wonderful to have that BP to turn to and to connect with. 

And I think that's what a lot of people are missing in small business ownership is connection and community. And feeling like I'm just on this island, I'm doing my thing, my heads down, like buried in the admin tasks, the clinical work, the marketing work, whatever. And at the end of the day, I don't even know who I've talked to because I'm just on my own, and I do see the appeal to have partnership in creating a venture. And I think that it sounds like for you two it has made just complete sense to do so together. 

And I think you know, because I don't want to highlight the fact that, like, yeah, this is hard, right? And like, a lot of these things fail and people have these struggles, we certainly want to be transparent about that. But highlighting the positive too, for those of you who are thinking about creating a business venture with a partner, like really taking this in about treating it, like a relationship, and watching the relationship's progression, and evolution throughout the trajectory of that pathway, I think is really, really beautiful to just get to witness and to experience.

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah, we talk about, you know, how we would never want to do this business solo, you know? And it's so lovely to be able to share all of, you know, the responsibilities, and the weight, and sometimes the burdens of those really challenging things that pop up. And it's, you know, just this love and respect that we have for one another, and the open communication, and when those tough times rise, being able to kind of like process, and work through all of the stuff, and give each other time to really get that clarity of what direction we really need to be going in, and how can we stay in alignment to ourselves, and what we're needing in terms of our lives, our families, our lifestyle, and then, in alignment with one another so that we can still stay connected and continue this business in a way that really works for both of us, and then, also, serve Startup Nation in the best way possible. 

So, I mean, it is pretty surreal, that it's been 10 years that we've been working together. And there's a lot that we've learned and a lot of ways that we've grown. And I think, you know, just continues to get better and better over time, which is amazing. And now that we've been able to really unlock the keys of fully systemizing things and really leveraging our strengths that we have with systems, and with outsourcing, and with focusing on our passions, and passive income streams because Private Practice Startup, it is a side hustle for us still, it's not our full-time gig. And we've got it nailed down now to where we can work once a week for four hours, three to four hours. And that's pretty much like what we do in terms of how much we're really giving to The Private Practice Startup, and to be where we are now, and able to juggle that with the other businesses that we have on. It's an amazing thing. And I'm really proud of us and how far we've come to be able to get to that point. It's not been an easy road. But it's been extremely rewarding. And I couldn't imagine being on it with anybody else. 

You know, Katie and I have a amazing relationship. And we've developed a friendship over the years, and really have each other's backs, and really genuinely love and care about each other. And even though we don't hang out often in person because we're about 45 minutes away in South Florida, with traffic and whatnot, it's a bit of a hike. So, whenever we do get to see each other in person, it's always like, you know, it's just so awesome. 

Nowadays, you can do everything online. So, we see each other weekly online, and we've got an online business. And so, it works. It's kind of funny, pre-pandemic, you think about like, we would drive 45 minutes or an hour, you know, it'd be an hour and a half commute to see each other, to sit down and work next to each other on our computers when, yeah, it was nice to get together, we'd have lunch together and whatever. But now we can be so much more efficient online. So, just one of the many other things that have evolved.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think that's really a great perspective on that. And I imagine just being able to celebrate so many wins together too and celebrate just the successes of the hard work, and all the energy, and effort that has gone into creating what you've created over the decade. Just to give a glimmer of hope to everyone listening, like 10 years ago, when you're sitting in this boring fucking training, and you're like, "This really isn't fun, we could do it differently." Did you ever foresee sitting here now with what you've accomplished and created?

KATE CAMPBELL: No.

KATIE LEMIEUX: No, definitely not. It's kind of mind-blowing. You know, sometimes, you know, we're looking at our dashboard, and the numbers and, you know, we see how far we've come, and then, how little we're consumed by the business because we have it so systemized, and outsourced, and we have a great team that, you know, for the small amount of time that we're able to really strategically work on the business to have the amount of growth that we have, and income that's coming in from that it's amazing. It's something that I'm really proud of and looking back I would have had no idea that that was possible.

PATRICK CASALE: I think that's amazing because I think so many people are listening to this and probably either just starting out, or they've got their practice, or their group practice, and they're probably thinking like, "Is this the finish line." 

And for those of you who are creators, and entrepreneurs, and are just kind of feeling like you want something different, there's so many possibilities within this career path. And I don't think we see that when we don't know that other things can exist. And when we're just starting out, it's like, I know, for me, I was like, "I just want to graduate, get a job in community mental health, and that'll be it." And then when I got to private practice, I was like, "And now this is it." What do you want?

KATIE LEMIEUX: That is it.

PATRICK CASALE: Right. Now, like, I don't really know what it is anymore. But I know that the possibilities are limitless with like the skills that we have, and how applicable they are in so many different arenas. And if you're just willing to, like, you, Kate have mentioned a couple of times, like, align with your values and do the things that you feel passionate about, that really energize you, that you want to show up for, I think the sky is the limit.

KATIE LEMIEUX: Mm-hmm (affirmative.

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah, 

KATIE LEMIEUX: And you know, one thing as you're talking, Patrick, you know, when we went from the statewide training company to a more online brand, you know, Kate, I think Landon must have been not even one year, I think, yeah, if he's going to be eight tomorrow, So, Kate would, you know, listen to podcasts while she was walking him around the neighborhood. She like pitched this idea to me, like, "I think we should start a podcast." And, you know, I will say, I think when you trust, you know, your partner, the idea might sound crazy, like, "I'm not really sure how to do that, but okay, let's run with it." You know what I mean? And here we are, you know, seven years later, still doing it. So, that's kind of cool. Like, when you do trust your partner, you trust that they have.

And in a lot of times, too, you know, one of the things I think that you know, I go back to kind of like, you know, development and attachment styles, right? When there's a healthy attachment to your partner, whomever in life, you know, you can go out, and make mistakes, and come back, and whatever. 

And so, you know, business is not always predictable. We don't know if something's going to work or not. But I think sometimes Kate and I will be like, "Well, let's try this as an experiment, right?" We'll label it as an experiment. And we look at it and there's no judgment, there's no judgment, like, "Well, you brought this to the table." You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, Okay, we both agree, we're going to label it as experiment. We'll do it for X amount of time, we'll spend X amount of dollars, if it doesn't work that's all we lost, and if it does work, great. 

So, there's a lot of that and we always keep an eye, and interestingly enough, we say we share our brain because like, a lot of times we're like thinking the exact same thing, which is amazing. So, that's also helpful too.

KATE CAMPBELL: Yes, or you complete the thoughts that are missing from my brain? I'm like, where did my thought go? Oh, Katie has it. Okay, great.

PATRICK CASALE: Like cranium partners with their [INDISCERNIBLE 00:27:37].

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's really a good point. Katie, like the healthy attachment with your business partner, you know the person you're doing this with because then risk-taking becomes so much more of a possibility without, I mean, the fear can still exist, but the ability to know like, we can take this risk, and we're going to have each other's backs despite the outcome, I think it allows you to feel more confident when you're making these decisions to take on new ventures, to start new ideas, to try something different when as if like the partnership wasn't as strong or healthy, you're probably going to question the other person's decisions, or you're going to question the other person's ideas, and maybe you're not going to trust that you can actually make it work. So, I think that is a testament to just the foundation that you've created, between the two of you. And I think, again, I just feel really impressed by that. 

And I think you two have been around for a decade. There's obviously always private practice coaches, and startup coaches, and all sorts of folks entering the industry now. And I myself am pretty new to it going on like two and a half years or so, to think about doing anything successfully for a decade and maintaining a very good reputation while doing so in an industry that is oftentimes plagued by people who don't have their customer's best interest in mind, I just want to commend both of you and I'm just really proud of you two, and your successes, and just happy to call you both friends. 

KATE CAMPBELL: Thanks so much, right back at you, Patrick.

KATIE LEMIEUX: Exactly. It's been fun watching you grow, too, and the momentum.

PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:29:16] I would say, but you know, I'm definitely glad I reached out to both of you during the pandemic to just be like, "Hey, do you want to connect at some point in time?" And Katie was like, "Yeah, we'd like relationships. That's fine." But I'm glad, like, things happened, and I just wish you two continued success. And I hope that whatever comes next for you both is really fulfilling as well. 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Thank you so much. Yep, same towards you.

PATRICK CASALE: Thank you. And do you want to share a little bit with the audience about where they can find you and what you all have going on? Because you have a lot going on and lots of good resources out there.

KATE CAMPBELL: Yeah, you can find us on theprivatepracticestartup.com, excuse me. So, we have our podcast which is all things private practice related. You find that on the website. We also have our private practice marketing eCourse and coaching program. Katie do want to pick up my voice. 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Yeah, sure no problem. 

KATE CAMPBELL: I'm recovering from a cold from a week ago.

KATIE LEMIEUX: And what we're probably most known as for our attorney-approved private practice paperwork. So, we have that, we have all the cart options, packages, etc. Yeah, and we have Facebook group where Startup Nation hangs out. I think I covered everything. Hopefully, I didn't miss anything. I think that's it. 

KATE CAMPBELL: Yep, you got it all. 

KATIE LEMIEUX: Okay. Like-

KATE CAMPBELL: Yes, this is how we share our brain, perfect example. Katie picked up right where I left off [INDISCERNIBLE 00:30:42].

PATRICK CASALE: In real-time, I love it. Yeah. And you know, it's funny, like when you have all these things that you've created, and you're just listing them off, and you're almost like listing them, like, I don't even remember what we have anymore because we've done so much. But all of that stuff will be in the show notes for everybody listening so you have easy access to all that information and all their wonderful resources. 

And thank you so much for making the time. I know you're both busy with life in general and everything you've got going on. So, thanks for coming on and hanging out.

KATE CAMPBELL: Thanks for having us.

KATIE LEMIEUX: Thanks for having us. I always have time for you, Patrick.

PATRICK CASALE: To everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice Podcast, new episodes are out on all major platforms. Like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week. Thanks, y'all.